Entirely Hypothetical: Darnold or Mayfield?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by HomeoftheJets, Apr 10, 2019.

?

Trade Darnold for Mayfield?

  1. Yes

    8.8%
  2. No

    91.2%
  1. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    You're right that Mayfield was a class above Darnold last year, but Darnold was a class above Allen because Allen forced opposing defenses to game-plan for his running. If defenses only had to focus on Allen the passer, Allen would have been screwed. And running as much as Allen did is not sustainable.
     
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  2. Bills Over Jets

    Bills Over Jets Well-Known Member

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    Allen didn’t run because of designed runs, he ran because it was the only option (see above). I’m interested to see if there’s a difference this year. I think there will be. The bills still lack a threat outside, but Beasley in the slot should help. I’m hoping they can add a WR and TE via the draft. We’ll see.
     
  3. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who watched Darnold post-injury was able to see there’s not much of a conversation to be had when it comes to a Darnold/Allen. Darnold was lightyears better. Allen’s style isn’t sustainable so forgive me for not putting massive stock into a few good games on the ground, one of them being week 17.
     
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  4. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Darnold's line was as bad as Allen's, but Darnold didn't run nearly as much. In the early part of the season, Darnold panicked and turned the ball over, but in the last month, he made plays with his arm despite the pressure. Allen didn't show that ability, at least not without forcing defenses to contain him instead of pressuring him outright.
     
  5. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    I don't watch college football so I didn't know about Mayfield. I was totally taken by surprise when the rumors came out shortly before the draft that Cleveland was going to take him #1 overall.

    Darnold was the guy I heard about for a good year plus before that draft.

    Now after having seen both guys with my own eyes at the NFL level it does seem that Mayfield has some magic, swag, intangibles. And now OBJ on his side.

    It's still early I wouldn't say I'd rather have Mayfield.
     
  6. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    From England so wrong again, talk us through josh Allen's many plus points
     
  7. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    I think at their peaks last year Darnold was better but Mayfield was way more consistent.

    Darnold is what 3 years younger? Give me Darnold.
     
  8. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Mayfield's peak was pretty fantastic. If you go by their best 4-game stretch (based off average rating):

    Darnold (weeks 14-17): 931 yards, 6 TD, 1 INT, 64%
    Mayfield (weeks 10-13): 1,109 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 74%

    Not THAT far off, but Mayfield had a higher rookie peak than Sam did. And since for whatever reason Josh Allen is being discussed in the same breath:

    Allen (weeks 14-17): 851 yards, 5 TD, 5 INT, 52% (added 4 rushing TD but we know his style is not sustainable)
     
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  9. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    you sound like the kid in the class no one wants to talk to but tries to become relevant by throwing their respective name in the hat.
     
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  10. Adamsthebeast

    Adamsthebeast Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping that with Gase calling the plays and more receiving options Darnold can get is completion % into the high 60s at least for the year. In the modern NFL mid 60s completion percentage is average and in the 50s is pretty bad. Of course touchdowns are important but they can be erratic sometimes. I usually judge a QB by the completion % (with a minimum number of attempts) and weigh that against yards per completion as the better stat to be able to read the field and accurately deliver the ball to a receiver. That said, Darnold wasnt helped out at all. He was missing his top receivers half the year with idiot Bates forcing him to read the entire field and a bad offensive line.
     
  11. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming you're talking about Mayfield's game 7,8 and 9. KC, Atlanta and Cincinnati vs. Darnold's game 10, 11 12 Buffalo, Houston, Greenbay?

    If you are here's something to consider. KC 31rank D, Atlanta, 28th and Cincinnati 30. Buffalo, 2, Greenbay 18, Houston 12.

    Not that defense matters or 3 games matter. I suspect if you put Sam on Cleveland against crappy defensive teams and Baker on the Jets against 3 decent NFL D's, Sam's peak may have been better? Hard to know.
     
  12. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how true it is or where it even started, but there was a story floated late in the season that Bates had given up on trying to communicate with Sam and McCown was doing most of the teaching. I'm sure that's exaggerated, if even true at all, but if there's any truth to it then it goes to show just how bad Bates was for Sam and how Gase could have a positive impact on Sam based off communication alone.

    Opponents absolutely matter. And I also think Sam did more in his peak in terms of making all the throws, extending plays, making plays, etc. I'm just going strictly off the numbers.
     
  13. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I love Darnold but anyone sleeping on Allen or Rosen based on last year may well be in for a surprise. Allen showed that he is a freak athletic talent who needs a lot of coaching and much better protection. It's probably going to take him longer than anyone else to get up to speed with being an NFL QB. He clearly showed he has the athletic talent to play QB in the NFL at a very high level. He has a long way to go but I wouldn't put myself in a box and say he won't be really good. He might well turn out to be great.
     
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  14. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    All Allen showed me last year was confirmation of what we could have gathered from his college career: big arm, tough to bring down but not a lick of passing ability outside the deep ball. With someone like Sam... when his completion percentage dips in his rookie year, you don't worry that much because you know he is an accurate passer and can make any throw in the book. He showed it in college and it was all over the scouting reports. You know that he's got "it", he just needs time and a good staff to unleash it.

    A guy like Allen, you've never seen a sustained level of success as a passer at any point in his career. Sure guys can get better but when has a sub-60% thrower in college who completed 52% of his passes in year 1 ever turned it around to be a "great" QB? Or even "good" for that matter? You can't say this after a year but when I see Allen, I just think he is who we thought he was.
     
  15. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    I was replying to a Bills fan, so you've kind of taken the revenge insult for Darnald away :rolleyes:
     
  16. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    He was already bleeding out. It's time to get rid of the body and scrub the floor.
     
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  17. Adamsthebeast

    Adamsthebeast Well-Known Member

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    If thats the case then Bowles didnt know what the hell he was doing. I am still mad we got rid of Morton for Bates and that was completely on Bowles. Bowles got into fights with him about wanting to run the ball more even though McCown was like top 10 in his QB play in 2017. The problem was (and STILL is) that the offensive line was opening no holes for a run game to even exist. Bowles should have known this, but decided to fire Morton for a guy who hasnt been an offensive coordinator for a few years to be his yes man. Bowles then had a year to lobby Macagnan hard for better offensive line to run his scheme, but that didnt appear to happen either (unless Macagnan completely ignored him which is possible). After drafting Darnold it was almost criminal that they didnt draft an offensive lineman in round 3. Instead we got like a 28 year old defensive linemen from a no name school that we probably could have got in the 5th round. Bowles probably was happy to be getting more defensive linemen that cant rush the passer like his predecessors before him. You would have thought they should have learned that good stories dont necessarily mean great players (see Mauldin).
     
  18. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Sam no question is far more polished than Allen. Mayfield no question came out of college with more experience than Darnold, Rosen or Allen. You have to realize Darnold and Allen are both very young. While Darnold clearly had more coaching and is way more advanced than Allen, both of them are relatively immature at the professional level.

    I would have expected Mayfield to be much better in his rookie year than any of the other QB's just based on his experience. He came into the NFL as a more mature player. Allen, even though he is older than Sam, clearly came in as the least mature QB. I think it's to soon to say he can't.
     
  19. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Baker doesn't improvise nearly as well as Darnold IMO. Its straight up natural for Darnold, Baker not so much.
     
  20. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    But the question remains... at what point in his career other than a throw here or there has Josh Allen given you the confidence that he's more than what we've seen throughout college and his first year in the pros? You have great bodies of work from guys like Darnold, Mayfield and even Rosen where you can look at tape and go ok, he's got it we just need to unlock it. Allen has never had it. He's been nothing more than a big arm and a tough guy to catch on the move.
     

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