You love to exaggerate. He was a "game manager in 2001", but wasn't that anymore in 2003 and 2004. Now, granted in 2003 and 2004 he wasn't "Dan Marino 1984" or "Tom Brady 2007", but he wasn't just a "game manager". They were the 2nd best team in the regular season last year based on math and shit. I went to a formula to pick against the spread in the second half of the season (close to 70% against the spread). The folks in Las Vegas knew Green Bay was the second best team. I knew it too. Do not be fooled by their W-L record. Obviously, in a league with 32 teams, you can make the type of comments you are making and think you are making yourself look good. In a given year in this era, if you say there are 12 QBs putting up "all-world" numbers, well, at least 11 of them won't win the Super Bowl.
I don't. I don't need to realize that, I know that. ? U lost me there. Cardinals, 9-7 including 6 wins against 49ers, Seahawks, and Rams (13-35 combined record), were ranked 22nd in pass D, that gave up 36 TDs with a QB rating of almost 100. You had far better choices, but I don't know why u picked this one. Kurt Warner was the only reason Cards made it to the SB. Now theres an elite QB right there. He had a few injury riddled seasons, but when healthy he would tear up defenses. Put Ben on that Cards SB team and they go 7-9 at best. You are picking plays out of games. I can show u where JaMarcus Russell has made a perfect pass, but that doesn't make him an elite QB (not that Im comparing the two). It was an excellent play and Im not disputing that. Again, you picked one play to show when the Steelers beat us, but it was our D that broke down in the first half and even with those 12+ missed tackles, Big Ben needed David Harris to cover a WR to convert a 3rd down. Not gonna credit Big Ben for that pass. A lot of QBs can run around in the pocket and complete passes. Tony Romo hasn't won shit, but he is much better than Ben when he has to throw on the run. You seem to be very infatuated by Bens mobility. Vick deserves some love too. I never said Ben isn't good. He is a good QB, but nowhere near elite. Take a look at his D. Steelers strive off its D. Troy was injured 11 games in 2009 and Steelers went 5-6 in his absence. Troy is a huge part of that D, and when that D struggles, Big Ben struggles to win games. It was also the only season when he passed for over 4000 yards. That D was ranked 12th and Steelers came out with a 9-7 record and missed the playoffs. So much for his mobility, when the D dropped out of top 5, he couldn't carry the team to the playoffs. He barely beat Curtis Painter after Troy returned a fumble for TD. Credit his D as much as u like. Its a combination of both, elite D plus good QB. But don't credit Roethlisberger for all the SBs. He's won three SBs, but as Br4dw4y5ux mentioned, winning SBs isn't the only thing that makes u elite. There are 53 men on the team and sometimes it takes all of them to win games. Ask the Packers.
Tier 1 Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Peyton Manning (if healthy) Drew Brees Tier 2 Ben Roethlisberger Philip Rivers Michael Vick Tony Romo Matt Ryan Tier 3 Matt Schaub Ryan Fitzpatrick Eli Manning Matthew Stafford Josh Freeman Mark Sanchez Jay Cutler Sam Bradford Joe Flacco You can definitely switch a few guys around, but the guys who have won SBs recently, minus Manning, are all in the first 2 tiers. That's not really the point, if you think Romo or Ryan should be down more, or tier 3 should be cut in half, or whatever. The point is: just because there aren't that many elite QBs doesn't mean that we should lower our expectations. Last 10 SB champs 2011: Rodgers (elite) 2010: Brees (elite) 2009: Roethlisberger (close to elite) 2008: Eli Manning (good QB) 2007: Peyton Manning (elite) 2006: Roethlisberger (close to elite) 2005: Brady (elite) 2004: Brady (elite) 2003: Brad Johnson (mediocre) 2002: Brady (good QB) Eli, Brad Johnson, and Brady in 2002 were the only ones who weren't great quarterbacks. Do you need an elite quarterback to win a Super Bowl? No. But it's very, very hard to win one without one. The Jets have some pieces in place to be one of those rare teams that buck the trend and win without one. But that's what I was trying to get to in my "we're not that great right now" thread. The defense is very good, but it's not good enough to carry us to the SB alone a la 2000 Ravens. Even the 2003 Buccaneers, Johnson threw 22 TDs to 6 INTs in the regular season, and the defense recorded 31 interceptions. The Jets had 12 last year. And just because I'm saying Sanchez isn't very good now doesn't mean I think he'll never get there. But right now, I haven't seen anything that makes me think he'll ever become a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Peyton level QB. He doesn't have to be quite that good for us to win a Super Bowl, but it damn sure wouldn't hurt.
I would list Brady and P Manning as the "elite of the elite". These two are all by themselves, probably the best ever. I would put Brees, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger in the "elite" category. They may or may not be the prettiest passers, but they have leadership in spades, and that's what separates great from very good IMO. "Not quite elite": Rivers, Ryan, Stafford. Rivers is a great passer but there's just something missing. Leadership, maybe? If Stafford stays healthy, he may move up. Ryan is still young yet, too. "Very good": Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Flacco, Hasselback, E Manning, Romo, Schaub, Vick. These QBs all seem to be somewhat inconsist which keeps them from moving higher. Hasselback and Vick have had injury issues as well. Fitzpatrick, Flacco, and Schaub seem the most likely to move up if they can lead their teams to real success. I would have included Orton in this category last season, but he has looked pretty bad this season, so he gets lumped in the "everybody else" category. "Everybody else": All other starting QBs, including young QBs in their third year in the league or less. Some in this group are decent enough QBs capable of playing some decent games (Bradford, Campbell, Cassel, Freeman, Grossman, McNabb, Orton, Sanchez) and others are mediocre (Kolb, A Smith). Some are rookies (Dalton, Gabbert, Newton) who have been thrown into the fire. Some you wonder why they are still playing QB in the NFL much less starting
Two things. First is I think your tier 3 actually covers a pretty wide range of talent. Were you to divide it into two tiers, meaning adding a 4th, imo Sanchez would be a tough fit in the higher, 3rd tier. He's closer to some not mentioned like Grossman than to the best in that list. But more important is the bottom line, covered in your last paragraph. The concern I have at this point, and the Jets have time to address what ails them right now no doubt, is that it's not merely a question whether Sanchez could be a game manager enough to win as people like Johnson did. The rest of the team right now is not showing a level of performance good enough to make up for an average Qb. 31st in run D, a mediocre rushing attack, not so special teams, don't add up to the kind of team the Bucs were when they won, for example. I have to agree with you.
"Right now", you mean today? Is it a short memory or short attention span? I vaguely seem to recall a lot of games last season that ended with Sanchez leading the team down the field in last minute drives to win games. Was it 5 or Six games he won like that just last season? And didn't he do the same thing against PEYTON MANNING and the Colts in the playoffs in the wild card round? And then go into NE and outplay TOM BRADY to knock them out of the playoffs? Of course, being in his second year, it's reasonable to expect him to go undefeated, and take every game out of reach by halftime, overcome his offensive coordinator, bad games by the defense, etc etc. And let's make sure that a majority of his recovers are lost every year, and he has to start over with a new crew. Crap- let's expect him to have his best passing stats of his very short career behind a battered OL that can't protect him. Oh, he's already doing that.... never mind. If the fucking defense would have shown up in the first half of the championship game, people would be seeing what he did last year as if it were the second coming of Joe Montana. What did Brady do last week? Throw 4 int's to lose the game? Fire him on the field.
you guys are all messed up .. Why is Brady on this list when we all know he had the defensive signals, etc etc etc? ... geez
God Tier Rob Gronkowski Tier 1 Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Peyton Manning Tom Brady Tier 2 Ben Roethlisberger Eli Manning - Michael Vick Matt Schaub - Phillip Rivers + Tony Romo Tier 3 Chad Henne - Donovan McNabb Jay Cutler Joe Flacco Josh Freeman Kerry Collins - Kyle Orton Mark Sanchez Matt Hasselbeck Matt Ryan Matthew Stafford + Matt Cassell Ryan Fitzpatrick Sam Bradford Tier 4 Everyone else + = Fringe upper tier - = Fringe lower tier
You might not have learned this yet but it has recently been revealed that Brady is actually the white Micheal Vick.
I think we should rank Sanchez over Manning. Manning is a cripple with a zero QB rating this season. The Colts are 0-3. Explain how that makes him better than Sanchez. After all, this is the 'What have you done for me lately' thread.
True. Collins is a proven veteran, and should be ranked higher. I guarantee Collins will win at least 13 games for the colts this season. /write it down.
Exactly. As for your first point, I had Tier 3 divided in half, cutting it off at Sanchez, putting him in the 4th tier. But I didn't want to deal with crap if I put Freeman and Stafford in the above tier. At that point, you have older QBs who are solid but with limited upside, or younger QBs who have shown flashes. So I figured I'd merge the two. Not much of a difference there anyway.
I thought about it but he hasn't proven he can win in the playoffs so I have him as a tier 2 on the cusp.
Seems as if many would prefer a QB that has great stats and does not provide results (like winning games, playoffs etc).
There's a bit of truth in that, but I hate the argument that just because he went to the AFC Championship game back-to-back years, he's a very good quarterback. Sanchez had a great supporting cast last year and still put up pretty crappy numbers. He did make the AFCC, and that's definitely a big notch in his belt, but it's a team game, and the rest of the Jets were very, very good last year. A lot of quarterbacks would have done just as well. He deserves credit for playing well in the playoffs and helping to get us as far as he did. But Shaun King was 15-9 as Bucs starter. Kyle Orton was 10-5 his rookie year and got replaced because he wasn't playing that well. Trent Dilfer was 11-1 with the Ravens. Big Ben was 14-1 with the Steelers his rookie year. You don't have to be a great QB if you have a great supporting cast to win games. To win Super Bowls, yes, unless the rest of your team is so dominant, and the QB doesn't lose the game. But just because Sanchez has made the AFCC doesn't make him a great QB at all. It's great experience, and it bodes well for his development, but Sanchez averages less than 200 yards passing per game in his playoff career. The 9 TD/3 INT ratio is great, and it's what we need from him, but it's not like he's carrying us through the playoffs. Unless you're saying you'd rather have Sanchez than Philip Rivers right now.
