If Joe Douglas does nothing more for the offensive line (outside the draft) and selects a WR with the 11th pick, we’re going to have a lot of issues keeping Sam healthy on the field. OT is a premium position vs WR, this is not an apples to apples comparison. Typically you can’t find starting OT’s after round 1, starting caliber WR’s are found in all rounds (round 2 has been a great round for them). OT is also a bigger need vs WR. Also there is not even consensus on who is the top WR in this draft. I mean none of them tested as an elite athlete like a Julio Jones or Randy Moss (closest thing is Ruggs who has some question marks)... In fact, the top 3 guys all have some question marks, Jefferson may be the safest and he’s #4... Taking the top WR on their board while we have huge gaping hole at LT (that never gets addressed) is exactly what I would expect of our past GM’s who were inept imo.
I really feel like I’m on an alternate universe here. The top three guys all have question marks? Jeudy is about as sound a WR prospect as anyone that’s come out over the last decade. Lamb isn’t as good a route runner but again, easily could be the best WR in this draft and that’s with an extremely well rounded WR like Jeudy in the mix. And I think the bigger issue to me is that you think filling a gaping hole at 11 would be a move that we’d see one of our GMs from the past make just because it’s not the gaping hole you want to fill.
I agree, I like Thomas quite a bit. Lots of starting experience, stayed healthy, great kid and is a true LT--seems like a safe choice to me. I think the media soured on him because he isn't overly athletic or imposing. He's a lunchpail player who's going to be solid for 10-12 years IMO.
Put it this way, if you told me I had to take 1 WR vs the field for who would be best in 5 years, I’d take the field. I don’t know who the best is and neither does anyone else. Jeudy is the safest imo. Still, Sam is more important than anyone else on offense. A LT is like a queen piece in chess for him. You make it sound like the 3-4th rated OT is a 3rd round talent... They all are considered top 15 1st round talents. The grades on the top 4 OT’s and top 3 WR’s will be very close... The gaping hole at WR can be filled in round 2+... The gaping hole at LT either needs to be filled by signing a Vet, trading for a Vet or drafting one at #11. You won’t find a starter after round 1... I don’t understand you just as much as you don’t understand me. The biggest need on this team is not WR... and even if it was, LT is way more important... and we got a giant hole there... Last year we had 30-32nd ranked Oline... a team that couldn’t run the ball at all + no Qb was under more duress for the last 7-8 games than Sam Darnold. How is WR the biggest need? How is this even debatable? The guys the Jets signed are backups (except Mcgovern)... I get that most Jets fans want a playmaker... but that’s not where games are won.
In a passing league, WR IS a premium position. OT is no bigger a need than WR. Yes, Sam has to be protected, but he also has to have someone who can catch the ball and score points. There have been quite a few very, very good, even Pro Bowl OTs who were drafted in lower rounds. Just as many OTs as WRs who were 1st round picks have been busts. Jerry Rice was not an "elite athlete." They don't have to be "elite athletes" to be great WRs. That said, I'm hoping the 1st round pick will be an OT because I don't want to go into the season with Fant and Edoga as our starting OTs and no depth, or with a rookie as depth. Douglas may be planning on signing Peters or Beacham or trading for Williams. If he takes a WR at #11, then I hope that he will do one of those three things or perhaps sign another veteran OT who is released after the draft. If he doesn't and Fant, Edoga and Sam struggle, then I will fault Douglas, but unless or until he does that, in Douglas I trust.
You’re basing this entire opinion solely on positional value.Is LT more important than WR?Yes.So much so to downplay the importance of quality skill, ignore team specific needs & potentially force a 1st round pick? Absolutely not. As of right now WR is a much larger weakness within the roster than the OL.Why?Pretty much every reasonable observation one can make about the current roster OTHER than positional value. A. The team signed 5 OL in FA & are utilizing the chris ballard method. The team lost their best WR & replaced him w a slight downgrade w nothing else done for a unit that was almost as bad as the OL last season B. We’ve seen 2 full OL rebuilds since the last time the team prioritized skill in Round 1. C.We’ve seen a bottom five skill group outside acouple short lived exception for most of the last 15 yrs.So much so we’ve seen solid to elite OL held back by below average to awful WRs who couldnt stretch the field or occupy safeties. D. The interior of the Jets line had a clear upgrade.Even w the concerns at OT w the changes made the unit would likely rank 25-28th in performance.Certainly not great.The WR corps is easily the worst in the league right now. E.There is no “X” boundary receiver on the roster.Let that sink in WR is the biggest short & long term need.OT maybe more important..but that doesnt change the disaster currently in place on the boundary. There are things great WRs do to help the OL.Its all about balance.. If one of the OTs is the best player at 11..take him.But if either of Lamb or Jeudy are Available there isnt an OT in this class who is a better prospect. The second tier of OL in this class is full of potential. To be all in on OL w.o context is just irresponsible. OL arent found outside of round 1? Larry Allen Trevon Armstread Mike Roos Rob Havenstein Ali Marpet Eric Steinbach Carl Nicks Matt Light Matt O’dwyer Jason Fabini Randy Thomas Kareem Mckenzie Adrian Jones Randle Mcdaniel Lecharles Bentley Greg Robinson-Randall Rodger Saffold Montrae Holland
We mostly agree, but I disagree that games aren't won with playmakers. That's a ridiculous assertion imo. I also disagree that all the OL that Douglas signed (except McGovern) are backups. Fant was scheduled to be Seattle's starting LT in 2017 before he got injured. Greg Van Roten was a solid starter for Carolina and I believe will be for us as well.
Great to see you posting again! I believe that Douglas has a plan. I think we will succeed with whichever way he goes. If he takes Jeudy or Lamb at #11, then I believe he will take an OT in the 2nd round, and probably look to sign an OT released following the draft, or will bring back Beacham, sign Peters, or trade for Williams to insure that Sam is protected. If he takes an OT at #11, then I believe that he will take WRs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, and may even add a WR released after the draft. I will be very happy with whatever path Douglas takes as long as it isn't a defensive player at #11.
I think you are spot on. It honestly depends on how Douglas rates the OT and WR. Welcome back by the way.
Rules have changed and yes a team like KC with a ton of weapons is a handful to match up against... Still their OLine ranked 4th in pass protection... That’s a far cry from where the Jets are at. Imo Teams that win in the trenches will have long term success. The fact of the matter is that the Jets signed backups. Maybe they work out, however most times that’s not the case. I’m sure there will be some forum bragging how they got Winters from us eventually too... I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but when I listen to guys like Paul Alexander (27 years of NFL Oline experience) throw shade at our “backup” signings... I take note. Let’s be honest us fans get ultra excited and overestimate everything - like Bell last year, Mosely and Williams and the stats Darnold would have in his 2nd year... most times for us Jets fans it never works out as planned... i’m as guilty as anyone else with my green colored glasses in the past... This time though, I just see it differently for whatever reason - We can agree to disagree w/no hard feelings. My take is that we shouldn’t dismiss the OT position at pick #11 based on who we signed and the WR’s available at 11 are not once in a generation type talents or that much better than the next few guys. Lamb and Jeudy filled in 8/10 boxes in my mind, not 10/10... We are in desperate need of a Brick type player if we want Sam to have any chance at long term success. This is I know to be true.
Exactly! No one said that we had to agree. I enjoy these discussions and find them interesting. As I've said, as long as Douglas takes care of the OL so that Sam is protected, I don't care if he does it by drafting an OT at #11 or if he takes a WR at #11 and then signs Peters, Beacham, another older veteran starter who gets releases following the draft or if he trades a pick from next year's draft for Trent Williams or another vet. The wiser course may be taking the OT at #11, but not if he's Douglas' 3rd or 4th choice. I know he wants to fix the OL and knows that's a huge need, but I think he also is very value driven, and if he has Jeudy or Lamb rated a lot higher than the #3 or #4 OT, he could go that way. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens! Thanks for the discussion. I enjoyed it and look forward to more!
Kurt isn’t this a weak class of tackles though outside of the top tier guys? You say it’s “full of potential” - who?
Jones Jackson ———— Wilson Pearl Niang Cleveland Phillips Adenini Heck Basch All have raw tools & there are some good pros that will come from that group.Thats not including Quite a few good players on the interior.
thank you I will look into these names and keep them in mind on draft day what do you think of Yasir Durant? The big beefy tackle from Missouri. Too slow for your liking?
I had actually just came back to edit my post & add him lol. He doesnt have a high ceiling physically but hes still new to the game of football which means we still could see a major jump in level of play. Hes someone that could likely compete right away at either Tackle spot though more likely at right Tackle
Of the "2nd round" talent like Wilson, Wanogho, etc who do you like? Could be 2 or 3 guys. Just curious your opinion and who you think would be good for us if we take something else in the 1st.
Kurt, excellent, well thought out evaluation as always. Great to read your posts here again. I would be very happy with either outcome, as I take notice that most all draft experts have Lamb and Jeudy ranked within the top ten, but also have one OL ranked equally high or ahead of them. Some with Wills and some with Whirf, while across the board all have both Lamb and Jeudy Around 6-10. Is a draft rich of opportunity for us. IMO our selection is more than ever at the mercy on how critical these two positions are to those drafting ahead of us. As I said before, when the bell rings at 11, for the WRs to be there, it means most likely both OL are gone, or vice versa. If at least one WR and top lineman are there we are going to pucker up big time and finally know where JD and Gase see the bigger long term upside for Sam and the whole offense with the top pick. The outcome will flood this board with pro and con responses. I find solace in knowing that with either, it will be the first time in the last 10 years that we finally strike on a position of crucial need. My gut tells me the board is stacked for the top WR to be there waiting for us. After the selection, I will wonder in silence if we made the right choice, hoping like hell we did, for once. And then drift my attention to the second round. Good start JD, I will say, and consider buying Jeudy’s Jersey.
I’ve been trying to find a good comp for Jeudy and I finally have one. Davante Adams. Adams is an astute route runner, maybe one of the best in the league. The way he gets off press and plants his foot is elite. Jeudy has those same traits. They are also nearly the same height and weight (Adams is 6’1”, 210) (Jeudy 6’1”, 192). Adams Jeudy
