Lee played in an NFL offense and, by all estimates, is an NFL-ready receiver. Maybe Cooks can do the same, but his size makes me think that it will take him a little bit more time to adjust to NFL defenses. I would be happy with either, though.
It's not that it's specifically going to take Cooks longer. It's that Lee is more ready to be an NFL receiver in a WCO offense and at a very high level than any other prospect in this draft. He's played in the WCO and when he had a stable QB position as a freshman and sophomore he was extremely productive. Last year he had real turnover at the QB position and he got hurt a couple of times and he still caught 57 balls in 11 starts and was going strongest at the end of the year when he had recovered some from the early season injuries and the QB position had stabilized. Cooks is a great prospect. Lee is better.
Cooks can play inside and outside despite being 5'10; he's also shiftier and more explosive than Lee. I'd prefer Cooks if both are there at 18.
Even though he did it in college you aren't really drafting him for his hands. He's all about yards after the catch...getting him touches in space. Jets likely wouldn't be counting on him to catch 100 balls..but rather to score 8+ Tds. He's just a body catcher. Some guys are just like that. But he can get away w/ it b/c of his movement &b/c he doesn't need alot of passes his way to make a difference. I highly disagree w/ this talk about him being average this year. He might've been a step slower due to injuries but he was still smooth as silk..getting behind back ends w/ ease & making acrobatic catches w/ guys draped all over him.
YAC is important in a WCO i agree. I just like Cooks or Beckham better than Lee for that type of player. I think we should try and shoot for the moon and draft Benjamin personally.. I'm on an island with that idea it seems but thats ok too.
So we took Roby out to dinner after his pro-day and I have no idea why. Per Rotoworld's CB Metrics: "Roby by far comes out looking the worst. He certainly wasn’t helped by his scheme at Ohio State getting beat on nearly 50% of his targets, but on top of that he had the worst passes defensed rate of the entire group. If one category isn’t strong, you’d at least like to see another strong stat – not so here." "Roby rarely pressed, only doing so around 11% of the time. However where Gilbert played a variety of off-coverage, Roby lined up 6-10 yards off the LOS 67% of the time. Another place the OSU scheme put him in a position to either make a play or give up a completion on short passes." "The scheme at Ohio State forced a lot of passes short on Roby where he was either expected to make a play on the ball, or make the tackle. We can see that nearly 55% of his targets came within 10 yards of the LOS."
The Jets probably like Roby's tenacity. He was very good in 2012 and the scheme in 2013 forced him to make plays on a lot of balls both before and after the catch. Good tackling CB's are very important in a man to man scheme. A lot of the time they have no help behind them and if they miss a tackle it's 20 yards before the safety gets the guy down.
You may be right, but I don't think Cooks will have any problems adjusting. He may not have played in an NFL-type offense, but he's smart and a hard worker. His route running is already refined. He may struggle some with bigger corners and press coverage, but speedwise, I doubt he struggles much at all since he's faster than most everyone on the field.
Stephen Hill is faster than him. The point is that you need the whole package to be an effective receiver at the NFL level. Cooks looks like a very good prospect but he's going to take time to absorb the WCO and he's going to have to learn how to get off the line when a physical CB who is also quick is pressing him. Lee already plays in the WCO and he was pressed by the good CB's in college and given a real cushion by the bad ones. He was very productive even in his "bad" season in 2013. He's very much like Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffery in that a lesser last season in college has depressed his one time top 10 draft stock.
Doh! Really? A WR needs the whole package to succeed? Well, knock me over with a feather. I would have never known that in a million years! Dude, I said that he may have problems adjusting to bigger CBs and press coverage, so you didn't need to turn around and act like you're teaching me something, which you aren't. Read much? My response to Axel wasn't a major disagreement. I was just pointing out that Cooks may not be that far behind Lee because of his work ethic, heart and determination. Stephen Hill may be faster, what of it? Guess what? Hill won't be defending Cooks. If you were trying to somehow indicate that I thought speed was all there was to it, then you've not been paying attention to my posts.
I'm sure I'll be flamed for saying this but I want no part of Ebron nor Amaro in the 1st. I think there is much more value in targeting Fiedorowicz in the 3rd. Imo Fiedorowicz is a more well-rounded TE and arguably better blocker. I was also impressed with Fiedorowicz in the short shuttle (4.26) and 3-cone (7.10). Compare that to Amaro who ran 4.26 and 7.42, respectively (Ebron did not do these at the combine).
I agree on not wanting the 1st round TE. That said Fiedorowicz is not the same caliber player as either Ebron or Amaro. He's a very different player stylistically as well. He's not likely to be a big pass-catcher in the NFL barring hooking up with somebody like Tom Brady who really knows how to use a TE well. Fiedorowicz is looking like a solid 2-way TE who will catch 30-40 passes for you and block well. If the Jets think Cumberland is going to become a prolific pass-catcher then lining Fiedorowicz up in-line on the strong side and having Cumberland on the weakside is a very viable plan. I'd wait until the 4th round to grab Fiedorowicz. I'd maybe take Amaro in the 2nd if he was there and a WR the Jets like better wasn't available. Ebron is just a very tough call. If he's a 50-60 catch guy in the NFL, and that's kind of what he looks like, he'd be a tough value choice on the 18. Maybe trade down if he was there instead of a WR and see if he was still there at 26 or so.
Fiedorowicz is a good prospect Ebron is an elite prospect. We need to give Geno a safety blanket big play target kinda like Jimmy Graham and Ebron is as close as it comes to that. If he is there that's our pick.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want "no part" of Ebron. Ebron could be an elite, dynamic, very productive player for the Jets. That said, I'd really rather the Jets take a WR, OT or OLB in the first and then take one of ASJ, Niklas or Fiedorowicz in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I want a 2-way TE too. It makes the offense less predictable, and I think when the TE has prototypical size, he has a better chance of having a longer career and the team getting more out of him. Even though Ebron is a decent blocker and can improve, with his smaller frame, I think the pounding at the TE position will cause a noticeable decline in his elite athleticism and speed within a few years and he would decline faster than say an ASJ, Niklas or Fiedorowicz. I think it would be better to get a very good 7-8 seasons out of one of those 3 than an elite 3-4 out of Ebron. That doesn't even take into consideration, the contributions the WR, OT, OLB or whomever they would bypass in the first round would make over the length of his contract.
You don't need an "elite" TE to have a safety blankcet for Geno. The elite TE gives more playmaking ability for big gains, but that isn't what a "safety blanket" is. A safety blanket is a reliable blocker and receiver for the QB. He provides a big target on 3rd downs and as a checkdown on other rounds. That isn't what Ebron would provide. He isn't that big, and certainly isn't prototypical size. If you're looking for a "safety blanket" at TE, the ASJ, Fiedorowicz, or Niklas would be the choice. If you're looking for a playmaker who would be a mismatch, then Ebron is the choice.
What do you base your statement on that Fiedorowicz isn't likely to be a big pass catcher in the NFL? That sounds like pure speculation on your part. He's a huge target and has soft hands. Why wouldn't he be a great target? He doesn't have to have elite speed to be a great target. At his size, he's always open. Tom Brady and NE aren't the only teams that know how to use a TE. I seriously doubt that Fiedorowicz is still available in the 4th round. If he is at the pick the Jets got from TB, then they need to grab him if they haven't taken a TE already. I wouldn't take Amaro at all. I don't like him. His production is overrated. He was never covered on most of his reception and most of them were short passes out of a spread offense. He lumbers and isn't that agile or athletic. He isn't even a good blocker. Ebron probably won't be there at #18, and almost certainly won't be there later in the 1st round.
I think your confusing big with tall in my post. Ebron is as thick as you can get and absolute beast! Didn't he do something like 24 reps at the combine?? He blocks at an elite level as well its just he is such a good playmaker last year down the seam that it was hard not to let him do his thing. I think he can totally be a 3rd down safety blanket player that can also surprise and make a big play on 1st.
I base it on his production in college, both the raw catch numbers and the yards per catch and the TD's. Guys don't go from 45 catches in their peak season with a 9.6 yards per catch to being big receivers in the NFL. Fiedorowicz will probably be used as an outlet receiver by whomever takes him and will get dump off throws when needed as well as being a big target in the red zone. He's going to have value in the NFL because he can block and he can function as an outlet receiver. He's a complete piece in terms of being an in-line TE. There are exceptions to the rule but generally what you see in college is similar to what you get in the pros when you're dealing with players good enough to play in the NFL.
I'm not confusing any such thing. You only mentioned "big" with regards to "big plays" and I agreed that if that is what one was looking for in one's TE, then Ebron was your man. Your premise was that: There is no such thing as a "safety blanket big play target." They are two entirely different things. One is either a "safety blanket" or he is a "big play target". If a player has the latter ability, he isn't referred to as a "safety blanket." You're as confused about this as you are the term "boom or bust" prospect. You can't have your own definitions for standard terms. You have to use the commonly accepted definitions. Dude, you really need to get your vision checked. Ebron is not that thick. I'm sorry, but that's just laughable, and to say that he blocks at an elite level is even more laughable. WW85 is perhaps Ebron's biggest fan on this site, and even he admits that Ebron is just a good blocker with room for improvement. Ebron has Graham's athleticism and receiving ability, but is a full 3 inches shorter. If you want a "safety blanket" or a big receiving target for Geno, then a prospect with more prototypical size is a better option.
