I guess I give Sam a little more credit that this. He's a good solid kid. His dad's a plumber for god's sake. He's also still a baby at age 23. He's not "ruined" (my opinion) he just needs somebody to actually block the rush a little bit and somebody else to catch the pass he throws. This isn't arcane complicated astro-physics. This is simple shit. That doesn't mean its easy. But it is simple. Get him some help.
Agreed. I'd also like to clarify by saying that if the current starter was Sanchez or Geno (or Fitzmagic or McCown obviously), I'd be all in on wanting someone like Lawrence. And further, if we see over the next 11 weeks that Darnold is shot, okay, fine draft Lawrence if he can be had. But like you've said also, if Sam is salvageable with a new HC and some more weapons, why start over from scratch? Because even Lawrence will have to go through a steep learning curve. Even Mahomes did, and what if he actually isn't as good as he appears? At a minimum we're throwing away yet another season and essentially starting from scratch with the offense. If Darnold can be resuscitated, I think keeping him, getting a good CS, and adding a bunch of weapons and supporting players is the better way to go.
I've said before in other threads: Joe Douglas does have a plan and it did not involve tanking for the #1 pick. I think he believes in Sam and wants to build around him. That was a main reason why he took the job. And why they are letting Sam get his shoulder 100% healed. They are thinking about future years. Not Week 6 vs Miami. Douglas knew the Jets had no chance to succeed in 2020, so he did not patch any holes on the roster, knowing it will help his rebuild plan with higher draft picks. Plus give him more cap space to work with in 2021. I don't think he was expecting the #1 pick, but maybe a pick somewhere from #5-#10. That gives him higher picks in all the other rounds too, which will help a lot. Plus Seattle's 1st round pick. All of that is gold to Douglas. I've said it before, I say use our top pick on someone else that can help build around Sam. I think that is Douglas' plan too, but if the Jets are so horrendous they do end up with the #1 pick, I think he has to seriously consider Lawrence. On the other hand, if he truly believes in Sam, he could get even more picks to re-build by trading the #1 pick. Can you imagine what Douglas could get for that pick? It would be tempting.
Pretty much this. The only reason I can really see dumping Sam for a new prospect is to restart the clock on a rookie contract for a QB.... YES Lawrence is a better prospect, but seems like it'll just be repeating the same scenario to me.
It really comes down to where we pick and what the new CS thinks about Sam. One thing about Douglas, he's flexible. He wanted to keep Adams long term, but circumstances wouldn't allow it and he got more back than many fans and pundits expected. It's possible that he believed in Sam when he was hired, but will take Lawrence if he and the CS agree that it's better to start over with the most highly regarded prospect since Luck.
If he believed in Sam, he wouldn’t of traded Robby Anderson and thrown Sam to the wolves with a garbage receiving core. I believe the exact opposite and feel he sees how Sam is a below average QB with poor mechanics and unable to read NFL defenses. I feel he can’t wait to move on from him because knows Sam isn’t worth picking up a 5th year option on and he’ll be really overpaid for how hes performed if they keep him on post spring unless he restructures.
He also needs someone to be inside his head and tell him a receiver is open and to throw it to him because he blindly misses ones that are open right in front of him. He needs someone to work with him on his accuracy and to not consistently air mail his receivers. He needs someone to work on his footwork. A problem that should of been corrected in college. The excuses you make for him are unbelievable. So many of you are part of the true Sam Darnold Cult.
Strong disagreement here. He let Anderson walk because he did not feel he was worth the money. I have said before, Douglas believes he can upgrade the #1 and #2 WR spots in 2021 and I agree. He gave Sam serviceable weapons this year with Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Hogan, Smith, Berrios, Herndon, Griffin, Bell, Gore, and Perine. Douglas can't help that Perriman, Mims, and Perine were instantly injured, Bell had a bad attitude, and Herndon and Griffin fell off the planet. He revamped the O-line with no off-season, so it is taking time for them to gel too. The defense is the true problem that Douglas poorly addressed this off-season. That has nothing to do with Sam. Now Douglas can take all of this bad luck and turn it into his own fortune in the 2021 NFL Draft.
We'll see BUT if he really had so much faith in Sam, he would of bit the bullet and overpaid a tad for Robby since he knows how durable Robby has been and Sam needs a reliable weapon on the outside. Perriman was a huge risk with his injury history and he took a massive gamble and it hasnt paid off to date. He took a bunch of risks and im not high on Sam at all but Sam faces the brunt of his questionable decisions because he banked so much on Perriman staying healthy, Mims looking promising, and Herndon reaching his 2018 form. All 3 have been risks when he had a sure thing in Robby with 30mill in cap room. Agreed 100% on him failing on the defense though. He banked on them playing as good as they did last season but didnt take into account how many bad Qbs they played against and how many of the promising players last year have downright been unimpressive (Jenkins, Anderson, Shepherd, Austin).
I think these two things go together. QB is by far the most important position in today's NFL. I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing otherwise. However, being most IMPORTANT that doesn't mean they should be the FIRST piece in a rebuild. Joe Montana, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning would have been killed on the 1999 Browns or the 2002 Texans or the 2019-2020 Jets, and you don't become HOFers from the IR list. Who knows how good Tim Couch, David Carr, or Sam Darnold could have been on a real team. I am all for building a team that can win 8 games with any old dud at QB, THEN trade up and draft THE GUY and let him come in here, grow and succeed. I don't see any logic in betting the house on a QB messiah. It's like the tossing the nicest ear of corn in the woods and expecting a bountiful harvest. Maybe consider plowing the field, adding some fertilizer and doing some weeding instead? I know, we are all far too impatient to do it the right way....We'd rather never get it.
A realist would acknowledge the possibility that given proper coaching could correct these problems or learn how to minimize them. And also acknowledge that Lawrence displayed some of these things against LSU. Put Lawrence into a similar situation to what Darnold's been in and he might struggle too. That said, I haven't seen Darnold close up as Douglas obviously has, nor am I any expert, and it could well be that JD has already decided that Sam is finished. That would surprise me, given he's only 23, but I would have to defer to Douglas's expertise for sure.
No one is disputing the poor coaching he has received but my main concern isnt really just the coaching. Its things he should be doing. Gase cant be faulted for him constantly missing open receivers, overthrowing receivers, and the footwork issue that should of been corrected in college. He has left so many plays on the field and I feel the Jets can do better than Sam Darnold. The fact that he is now in year 3 and these are all still big problems, it pushes me a lot of other fans to feel like we have seen enough and want to move on. I personally dont like the age as in excuse. Im not ruling out him never improving or not playing better with a better Oline and more talented receivers but theres a lot of plays that even with better talent, he still isnt quite reading defenses like the upper echelon of QBs do. I dont expect Lawrence to come in and be elite from day 1 but even with a mediocre LSU game, he is more of a finished product coming out of college then Sam ever was. I want a QB who will make the players around him better and not the other way around like many folks expect with Sam. We have settled with mediocre Qbs so much here, it comes across as people just never wanting to let go and afraid to see what could be a real legit franchise QB. If what folks and scouts say about Lawrence are true, he could be a special QB. Something we havent seen here in ages.
Ok, maybe Lawrence has some flaws but he’s generational. Still better off with him than not. but, we are still so many pieces away, it won’t matter until we get a WR, OL and another free agent OL
But Gase can, and must, be faulted for not getting him the right coach. You say he should have had his footwork fixed in the NCAA but everyone involved knew about that before he was drafted and supposedly took on that responsibility. Jeremy Bates didn't do it, Gase didn't do it. I would have had Darnold working with a foot guy, an arm guy and a head guy to polish all those aspects, instead he had Bates and Loggains.
