I'm not a studied expert on "the chart" but a lot of it depends on where the trading team is coming from. Just one historical example is the Redskins had the #6 pick and traded that, plus their 2nd, plus their 1st round picks the next two years to draft Robert Griffin. I mean... thats a haul. If some team decided Lawrence was their total future I don't think getting something like that would be off the table for the Jets. Building a football team is all about leveraging your resources, with a healthy dose of dumb-ass luck mixed in. One of the very very few resources the Jets actually have is a quarterback with star potential already secured. To me it would be absolutely assanine to not try to take advantage of arguably the only thing you have actually going for you other than left tackle. Get Sam some help.... starting with a different coach. I've not yet seen a scrap of evidence that this jackass they hired actually brings anything to the table.
players and coaches never tank they are all playing for their current and next contract and no-one wants to look abysmal "oh yeah I know i was beaten on all those coverages or got zero sacks but you see i was told by my coaches to deliberately play badly, I am actually very good"
Come on, he did beat Alabama -- and convincingly -- in the NCG the year before. You seriously going to hang it on 1 game that he lost that he isn't the real deal ? If he were able to come out after his freshman year, he would have been the #1 overall pick.
FWIW, if we DO finish with the #1 overall pick BUT decide to stick with Sam (maybe he turns it on the 2nd half of the season, though I would think that leads to wins)....you should be able to get a Top 5 pick in 2021 and three other #1 picks and a pair of 2's.
I mean it sounds nice but what is that compensation based on? The Goff trade was one extra first (and one the same year), two seconds and two thirds. He was a lesser prospect but your package seems a bit wild. Three extra firsts and two seconds???
QB's drafted #1 are usually hyped up way more than they actually talented. The best QB's in the NFL were not the #1 pick. I would prefer the Jets keep Darnold, and bring in young veteran... maybe Winston to compete. If we do secure the #1 pick. Trade it down for a top ten first and a 2nd. Then trade the top ten 1st back again for a 10 - 20 pick and a second. I think it would be a big mistake to draft Lawrence when the team has so many more holes to fill... the OL, the DL, the LB, WR's... flip that pick into 5.
I don't know, my friend. Even though I like Sam and would love to see him succeed, I think that Lawrence is the safer bet at this point. He hasn't taken the pounding Sam has, hasn't had to try to deal with lousy skill position players around him, hasn't been confused by horrible coaching, hasn't been forced to play in a scheme/system that doesn't fit what he does best, and hasn't had his confidence beaten up. Sam might be able to be "saved" and rehabilitated, but for that to happen, I think we would have to hire almost the perfect HC, OC, and QB Coach, fix the OL and add at least two quality receiving targets between the WR and TE positions, rehabilitate Herndon, add a topnotch RB who also excels at receiving, and all that has to occur in the upcoming off season. Given the Johnsons' history and Jets' luck, what are the realistic odds of any of that happening, much less ALL of it?
No, I'm not hanging the criticism on one game, but the fact is that he wilted under the pressure. Sure, everyone, even the greats have a bad game now and then, and so I'm not saying he sucks and isn't worthy of the #1 pick. What I AM saying is let's not get his bust ready for Canton quite yet. And I AM saying that if you're knocking Darnold for these things, you need to acknowledge that Lawrence - or any QB - can exhibit them. And If Lawrence does come to the Jets and they still have the "Genius" as HC and haven't greatly improved the talent around him, he's probably going to perform a lot like Darnold has. Maybe he'll do a little better because he's bigger and faster, but he also might suffer a bad injury because he'll tend to use his legs more often. IOW, everyone rooting for an 0-16 season which will "guarantee" the firing of Gase and getting the #1 pick and getting Lawrence, and quickly playing in the SB needs to pump the brakes.
Fair points, but the possibilities of rehabilitating Darnold and adding that talent - especially if they do get the #1 pick and get the expected king's ransom for it - are better than you suggest IMO. But I will say that if Gase finishes the season and Darnold has to continue to play under him and these conditions, the odds of salvaging him grow much longer. But the other main point of this thread is that those who look upon Lawrence as the "Savior" need to take a step back and get a reality check.
Hire Brady as HC??? He has a contract with the Panthers as their OC. This is only his third year in the NFL. The other two were 2017-2018 with the Saints where he was an offensive assistant. He has only been a coach since 2013. He had two years with William & Mary as a LB coach. He was a graduate assistant with Penn St. in 2015-2016. He was at LSU for only one year. He doesn't have nearly enough coaching experience, enough high-level coaching experience (both in terms of quality programs and responsibilities. This is only his second year as an OC.). Hiring him as HC would be a typical Jets move, and it would undoubtedly fail as all the previous ones have.
While Trevor is more athletic, I still think Joe Burrow is the better pro-prospect.... but then again, I thought Josh Rosen would be too
Normally, I might agree with this, but after what Sam has been through with the Jets in his career, it's more likely that he's already ruined, and will never reach the potential he showed. Still, he could turn things around with the right CS and weapons around him. That's why I wouldn't trade Sam after taking Lawrence. I'd let the new CS work on him and see if he can be "fixed." If so, the Jets can trade either Sam or Lawrence. The thing with Sam is that next year will be his 4th season. They shouldn't extend him based on what we've seen so far. Lawrence would have a 5-year cheap deal.
We'll just have to agree to slightly disagree. I think the odds on salvaging Sam are much higher than you think. I've also seen Lawrence play a lot. He is more talented than Sam, and it isn't by just a little. Don't forget that Sam will be in year 4 of his contract next year, and the Jets shouldn't extend him based on what they've seen so far. I'd be surprised if he'd even be willing to sign an extension should the Jets even offer one. Lawrence or another rookie QB would be on a cheap 5-year deal. That alone, pretty much says that the Jets should move on from Sam.
Everyone mentions how Lawrence will be cheaper because he'll be on a 5 year rookie deal. But they also seem to overlook the fact that Sam is only on his 3rd year and still has 2 more years under his rookie deal. The Jets don't HAVE to renegotiate his deal until then. Yes, the standard practice has become to re-do the deal after Year 3 to lock up a player you really want, but if that player hasn't proven he's worth that there is no obligation for the team to do so. Therefore rushing the decision to get rid of Darnold because he's going to cost more is baseless. If they get a new CS and more weapons and he shows that he is a FQB then they'll likely want to pay him more, but he would've proven his worth at that point. If he doesn't prove it by Year 4 (assuming the improvements around mentioned), then trade him or cut him.
I basically agree with this. One thing that's not mentioned often on these boards is that JD likes players with a certain type of attitude: players that will do anything to avoid losing. He drafted players that are leaders and have a superior attitude. Does Darnold have that attitude and does JD want to keep him? We don't know yet. Does Lawrence have that attitude and will JD want to draft him given the chance? We don't know.
it's against college defenses. that is the point. he's gonna throw INTs in the NFL. and wilson is barely 6' and he's the favorite for MVP so who cares that he is 6'6" I'm not saying lawerence won't be good. I'm saying he could suck in the NFL. fans need to get off the hype train. we have a QB we need everything else
I remember that press-conference by the Eagles the moment they canned Kotite. The look on the Eagle owner Lurie's face was that of like 'I couldn't fire this guy fast enough'. Leave it to the Jets to hire on a coach that lost the last 7 games of the season. Hess took it on his own, dumping Pete Carroll and phoned Kotite. We all know the rest of the story.
Let's say we end up with Lawrence. We could sign a WR and OL in FA, draft one of each and take a RB somewhere on day 2 or 3. WR: Crowder, Mims, FA signing, draft pick TE: Griffin, Herndon, draft pick(to push the other two and possibly start) RB: Perine, draft pick OL: Becton, FA signing, McGovern, draft pick/Clark, Fant He'll have a better supporting cast than Sam ever did and he has more upside than Sam to begin with. And a better CS that can maximize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses.
Good main point CC. And I don't think it can be emphasized enough. The Jets don't need a "savior" They just need hit good players on as many of these draft picks as possible and straighten this coaching mess out. Trevor Lawrence for the Jets I am just not seeing. Your going to take your franchise thats already having a terrible time, sell low on your star QB that you yourself have now tainted by putting him into a burbling cesspool to tread water, go after the new shiny thing for no reason, and then what? Throw him right into the same burbling cesspool? It doesn't even make any sense. Strain the damn cesspool and get the mess cleaned up is what makes sense. That doesn't even mean they'll succeed but you have to at least try your best and put the odds in your favor as best as your able.
