Well there is obviously other means to support a players ability to play a position in the NFL then #'s, however stats can't be ignored becuse they give some sort of guideline when comparing players and positions. Good example, Ray Lewis ands Zach Thomas, everyone just three seasons ago thought Ray was the best MLB in the game however he doesn't have the numbers Zach has and because the Ravens were "as a unit" as good as any D in NFL history Ray got all the hype because he was the QB of the D. Thats fine, but it doesn't make him the best in the game. Why I say this is just because some perceive a player to be the best deosn't make it a fact and one way to compare players is by the numbers they keep. #'s also play a huge factor in HOF nominations. Not trying to argue here, just letting you know thats why I posted the two QB stats.
He did struggle against oak but Oak was alot better than the Giant team tha SHUTOUT Daunte in '00 and Chad didn't have Randy Moss, Robert Smith and Cris Carter. In '04 Chad was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff against Pitt, I tend to give him a pass on that one. He did wipe up Indy and played evry well at SD even w/ the torn rotator cuff.
I disagree strongly with Junc on Culpepper and I like Zach Thomas but if your going to argue that Zach Thomas is better than Ray Lewis your barking up the wrong tree.
I'm glad you point out Zach to Ray Lewis. Lewis was the leader of a tam that carrid an offense to a SB title, Zach was the leader of a D that gave up 164 points in 5 playoff losses from '97-'01 and while Ray and Co were holding Miami to 3 pts in an '01 playoff game Zach and co. gave up 20 to Bal.
I think Palmer is well on his way, however I'd like to see a little more of him before I put him in Elways class. I can't say I see what you see with Palmer at this point.
I was blown away by Palmer the first game I saw him play against us to open the 04 season. Here is what I see. Big, mobil, accurate in the pocket, accurate on the move, tough to knock down and can make every throw on the football field even when under duress. He is the most talented prospect at the position I have seen since Elway. That's what I saw and I hope he comes back from his injury. He has a shot to be a HOF QB.
Let's not go there please. The next thing we know, you'll be calling MLB Zach Thomas a loser, and about how all he's good for are "fantasy numbers". You'll probably even go as far as saying Vilma is better than Thomas....SHEESH....
Whats your point?? You are trying to say because of Ray the Ravens D was the best in the league and because of Zach Miami couldn't win a playoff game?? Here's a little FYI...football is a "TEAM" sport and while individuals do stand out they don't win championships alone. It's also most important that teams that win it all have the right coaching in place to do so. They don't take on snap or catch one ball or score one touchdown, but they are every bit as important as the QB or DB ot Kicker. You really don't seem to grasp the basics of this sport and you try to argue points without support. You can't make Pennington what he isn't and you can't give him all the credit or all the blame. He's one player on a team. All he can do is help them or hurt them but he can't do everything, so without a supporting cast he will win 0 SB's. I think Marino proved that. I guess you'll say Chad "when healthy" is better then Marino too,...right??
I won't argue his upside or the fact that he's one of the best youg guns in the game today, but I just don't see in him what you see at this point. I think he has all the tools and I think there is a very good chance he will be what you think he will be. I'm just not willing to go there yet. It takes more then just a season or two to lift yourself above the rest. He's still very young and I'm 100% sure his injury will be nothing more then a blip on the radar. I hate Marvin Lewis, but I like Carson Palmer alot. I hope he turns into a HOF'er.
I believe McGahee was medically cleared to play toward the end of the 2003 campaign, so he practiced with the team but never played. In fact, he wasn't 100% even at the beginning of 2004 -- about 20 months after his surgery. It took him a few games in 2004 to get "right". It was probably mostly mental, but traumatic injuries will do that to anybody. That's why there are a lot of people questioning the idea that Daunte will actually be ready to play in September or even into October.
Trust me...if junc has read all your posts, Im sure hes pretty comfortable with his "knowledge of the game". You were comparing Zach (who I happen to think is a really solid player..so stick it with the bias stuff) to Lewis. There was never...will never...be any comparisons between the two players. If you wonder why people dont repsond to your posts, when you make comments like that, people start to feel sorry and pity. The only reason Im responding to this ridiculous one is that you have some nerve telling people they have no knowledge of the game.
Zach has been a very good player but he's vastly overrated by dolphin fans. he has never been near ray Lewis' level and most talk like he is close to him. Zach and JT were the leaders of those supposed great D's that always folded in big spots. Take what you will from that. QBs are judged on winning, of course you ned help but when Chad plays e win most of the time and when he doesn't we lose most of the time. The opposite is true for Daunte. marino is the best QB I have ever seen, he at least made a SB and a few AFC Title Games and did so w/ subpar talent around him. Greatness to me is elevating your teammates and Dan did that, Daunte does not.
haha at least you nipped it in the bud! Vilma isnt better than Thomas..............yet. In any position consistency is what amazes me. Ray Lewis is Ray Lewis, thats that. But Thomas has been a day in day out guaranteed player who will do whatever is expected of him. haha as far as numbers go, Thomas has Vilma by like 3 tackles and one Pass Deflection in their first two yrs. with virtually mirrored numbers, any Jet fan claiming Thomas to be solely a "numbers" guy could slap that tag on Vilma. I think Vilma can make more impact plays, but as far as field presence, you always know Zach Thomas is there. anyways, this thread has gone on too long for my liking but if you cant beat them join them. fortunately we beat the phins once last yr so both sides can bicker to their own delight.
Ah yes my favorite whiner, tell you what genius why don't you prove Ray is better then Zach. You can't, you just want to be a little girl and cry every time someone pulls your ponytail!! I could give a rats behind what you think you are the biggest watse of space on this site, so why don't you go ask your 6 yr old or 7 yr. old which ever it is this week if he/she/it can put you down for your nap becuse the adults are talking here.
DUDE this thread is freaking awsome it is defintly not a waste of time. this is the best thread EVER!
I deleted the post. Sorry bud, I have no idea what your problem is...or why you would feel the need to say the above things. You have come here and annoyed so many people with your posts and you think its because you are stating facts. There are plenty of fans from different teams that come here and discuss...even argue about things. In all the time I have been here, I have never seen such a childish immature person in my life. Just hope your 12 year olds or less...because then some of these posts would make sense. If your older than that, you need help. If you are much older than the above age, I would appreciate a PM from you to inform where you location is...so we could calmly discuss your above post face to face. Nobody...nobody talks to me like that...and I have never done that to others. Waiting for your pm.
He better be 7 years old..thats all I can tell you. How anyone thinks they can post crap about people that he has...well...sorry...hes not the kind of guy that Im going to waste my time going back and forth with. Let him put up or shut up.
McGahee is a RB and Daunte is a QB.....do you see any difference in the two positions??? McGahee had one of the worst injuries I've ever seen on a knee. Daunte won't take the pounding on his knee a RB does. Daunte's knee is near 100% in strenght and we are still 3 months from the start of the season.
