Matt Ryan was not a project, he was heralded as one of the stronger pro prospects that decade. Joe Flacco came around during the combine, displaying his elite arm strength. I prob would have taken a chance on Flacco in the first round. 100% would have drafted Ryan if the opportunity came about. They don't think much of Foles IMO. I would love to get more, maybe 2 firsts if I could. To go from 20 to 6 is one hell of a jump. We need to really have the Eagles dig deep in their pockets for this trade. If they can't get a great deal, then more than likely the Jets will look to get someone else at that position.
Nick Foles just turned 26 earlier this week. I know he's no sure thing to get better, either. But he's probably got a good 8 years or so in the league in him. I also do not discount the importance of the aging factor on the current Jet roster. A major decision on Ferguson is looming, for example. PFF showed his play deteriorated signficantly this past season. I am of the view that LT is one of your key positions, and Ferguson has held that down for a long time. His situation becomes very shaky after this year. And he's just one player. Add in the notion of Smith remaining the starter, taht Mariota is no sure thing, and waiting doesn't sound all that great to me.
I addressed this yesterday. In fact what Kelly seems to think of Foles is that Foles is not a good fit for the kind of O Kelly wants to run. There are plenty of Eagles fans who like Foles, but at the same time they recognize that a more or less classic pocket passer is not what Kelly wants and, since Kelly has a very friendly contract, Kelly is likely to be allowed to pursue what he wants. The reality is that Mariota is better suited to Philly's offense, and that environment, than any other. Kelly probably thinks, and no doubt with some merit, that Mariota would not take so much time to develop in Philly compared to elsewhere. It's probably the only place he might even comfortably start the season. Meanwhile the Jets might have Mariota fall to them, are NOT as good a fit, and Foles is the better fit for the Jets' personnel, situation and likely offensive philosophy. Getting Foles on the Jets with Mariota to Philly is, under this analysis, a classic case of a trade that makes both teams better. Philly would understand all this, and that the Jets do not have a better prospect of improving as much under any other plausible scenario. That being the case, I think getting Foles and two number ones is never going to come close to happening. The Jets would have to accept a smaller package than that.
It depends upon what you mean by "fundamentals." I would submit that Sanchez did not have the fundamentals down. Yes, he knew how to take a snap from under center, but his decision making, reading of Ds, and accuracy were all bad and his football IQ way below average (at the imbecile level). His work ethic was questionable. Mariotta has to work on taking snaps from under center, his drops and footwork. His football intelligence is off the charts. He is accurate, his decision making and reading of Ds is light years ahead of where Sanchez is even now. He has a great work ethic. I disagree with your assertion that every QB in the draft has talent and potential. There are QBs in the draft every year who have no more potential than you or I, even if his talent is greater than yours or mine. Yes, taking a QB is always a risky proposition if he isn't one of the order off Manning or Luck. For that matter, so are many 1st round picks and WRs, but that doesn't mean you don't take them if you're smart. You just try to minimize your risk by doing your homework. I understand fans not being "sold" on a player and wanting to trade instead. It's different for a GM and CS, however. There are degrees of being "sold." If it's 50-50 with them on Mariota, then they probably shouldn't take him, but if it's 60-40 or better, they should roll the dice. With a guy like Mariota or even Winston who has a lot of physical talent and ability and who possesses a high football IQ, you have to way the risks versus the possible benefits. If you miss on guys like that it, hurts, and hurts for a while, but if you hit, then your team is much better for it. When you've gone as long as the Jets have without good QB play, you have to take some risks imo. Heck, aspiring to greatness is a risk. You won't get to greatness by playing it "safe." IMO the Jets could have one of the top 10-15 OLs in the game, a solid RB and WR corps and a top 10-15 D, but with a mediocre QB their chances of winning consistently or winning it all are slim and none. In today's NFL, one needs a topflight QB to win consistently and to have a realistic shot at winning the Lombardi Trophy. I understand that some of you think a quality QB can be found in the draft within the next year or two, but that's the crux of our disagreement. One isn't often in the position of getting a topflight QB prospect unless one's record is awful. If the Jets greatly improve the team's talent level, then their record should be improved enough that they won't have a realistic chance at drafting that topflight QB unless they give up their whole draft, and that's never good. It would also mean that Bowles is no good as a HC and the Jets will be starting all over again. It would also mean that even if they were somehow able to get a QB, it would just be another year or two of mediocre W-L records and play. We shouldn't have even been in this position. If that idiot Idzik had taken Teddy last year as he should have, we'd have our franchise QB, and we wouldn't have to be talking about Mariota.
I will reiterate. I absolutely would trade with the Eagles IF the price were right, and the price would be heavy. at least 2 future first round picks, AND at least a 2nd and 3rd this year and a 2nd or 3rd next year as an absolute minimum.
First of all, let me preface my hard line by what I have said consistently since I joined this board. Virtually everything I say is my opinion but is really nothing more than a guess. Virtually everything anyone says here to a certitude just means they are guessing but that have conviction in their guesses. I'm guessing about Mariota because in the end, I can't know to a certitude what he will become and what he won't. And neither can anyone else. I base my conviction strictly on my personal opinion that he is one of the best 3 QBs I have seen play college football since Andrew Luck and for at least the 5 years before that. Two of those QBs are no longer available to the Jets fuck you very much John Idzik. Probably the 4th best I've seen over that span is Winston. I'm not a pro scout. I've never met any of these players nor have I any personal knowledge as to their personalities or work ethic or intelligence other than what I've gleamed from what I've witnessed and read. Mariota and Winston, to me, look and feel like they have the combination of the talent and football IQ and work ethic to be elite NFL QBs. I haven't felt that about any other QBs (other than Luck, Teddy and Carr) in a very very long time (maybe Teddy and Carr never get there but I like what I've seen so far). And they are better than any QB I see on the horizon--better than Cook or Hackenberg (who I actually don't think is very good) or Goff or Jones (but I reserve my opinion on him because I haven't seen enough). Maybe I'm guessing wrong. I want either, but my preference is Mariota because (i) I actually think he'll be a better pure player (i.e., Rogers versus Rothleisberger) than Winston and (ii) Winston's off field stuff still gives me a bit of pause. And I want both of them to sit for a year. But yes, I'd trade up for either of them because of my very two deepest convictions. One--there is nothing else in the NFL that matters more than getting an elite level franchise QB for continued, sustainable, consistent winning. No other position, no amount of extra picks to gather talent at WR and RB and OLB and DE and CB and TE matters. Can you win with a mediocre or a journeyman or a game manager and an otherwise stocked roster? Sure. But not year-in and year-out. And probably not the big game. And two--you do not "develop" an elite QB by picking a bunch of middle to late round QBs and hope you strike gold. There is no "throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks" in order to find an elite QB. You're wasting picks that could be used to find elite level players at WR and RB and OLB and DE and CB and TE. For every Brady or even Wilson there are hundreds and hundreds of QBs who have never made even the slightest impact. I don't know to a certitude whether Mariota or Winston will become elite level franchise QBs. But when I finally have a pick that puts me in play for a player of that magnitude at that position, I don't trade BACK to get more players. I trade UP to secure THAT player and ride him for the next 12 years or more. _ _
I don't want to wait two years to get a QB, and while I prefer Winston, I have no problem with the jets selecting Mariota if they can bring in a vet, and let him sit for a year. But I can't throw away a year with Geno as our starter and then we find out Mariota sucks. I do care about 2015, and 2016..etc and that's why I propose that the jets talk to Tampa and move into the #1 spot and take Winston, if we want to be contenders for the next ten years with a franchise QB then let's see if we can make it count.
Except (i) Ryan had an arm like Chad Pennington when he came out and Mariota is simply a more athletic version of Ryan with a much stronger arm and (ii) the only reason Ryan was taken that early was because Arthur Blank needed a new white knight (no pun intended) to come riding in as the new face of his franchise to wash away the stink of the Michael Vick dog killing scandal. So you won't take one of the most prolific and gifted QBs in NCAA history at 6 but 12 picks later you'd take a dude that couldn't beat out a scrub at Pittsburgh and starred for the Delaware Fightin Blue Hens? So everything you've said about being raw and developmental about Mariota you wash away for a guy from a Division 2 school? Sounds a little hypocritical. _
Matt Ryan was heralded as one of the better qb prospects that decade. You won't get yourself out of that one. Please do not compare Mariota to Matt Ryan. 2 different playing styles, 2 different systems, etc. There is no comparison there. Don't really care about Arthur Blank and the Vick situation. Has nothing to do with Ryan and how good he was out of the draft. What do you in college, the accolades you achieve have nothing to do with the next level. Flacco during the combine really showed scouts something. Extremely tough, super elite arm. That's because, I prefer QBs that operate in the pocket. Not QBs that tend to run if their first read isn't available. I would not have taken Flacco with my top 6 picks, but if I traded down - then yeah I would have taken a chance on him. Matt Ryan? No questions asked, I would have taken him in the top 6 picks.
Wow, holy revisionist history. Matt Ryan was a weak armed immobile QB in a weak conference playing a weak schedule. He wasn't a great QB prospect of any decade, he wasn't Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning or even Cam Newton and he didn't have half the talent coming out that Mariota had. He was a taller Chad. Not sure how many BC games you saw, I saw them all. Great leader, fiery, great college QB but his arm was not NFL worthy when he came out. You put way too much emphasis on the systems and not the player. You're right though, there is no comparison between the two. And if you don't think Blank made that pick because of Vick you're just intentionally forgetting it. No one was angling to trade up to get Matt Ryan. Nice player, not the flavor of the decade. _
