There's no way that it should have been Jones. He doesn't have an NFL arm and is immobile, and is arrogant POS. I could have gotten behind Fields, but I still think that Zach was the right pick, he just shouldn't have been counted on to start day one with Saleh and MLF and no decent veteran QB.
Fans saying that an NFL team drafted Zach pretty much solely because of his Pro Day is downright laughable and anyone making such a stupid comment should be embarrassed.
Stats don't tell the full picture. It is so comical seeing fans making statements on Jets fan sites based solely on that player's stats. Mims made some big catches and blocked well in the rushing attack. He was a rookie so they didn't give him a ton of opportunities. Still, I see your point, and perhaps "more than decent" is an overstatement. He showed potential. Perhaps he never would have succeed in the NFL anyway due to his route running or perhaps football intelligence. We'll see how he does if he makes the Lions' roster.
My two cents He’s the best GM we’ve had since probably Tanny…hard to say he’s better than Tanny so far because Tanny took us to 2 AFCCG’s and rebuilt the OL in ONE year (drafted Brick and Mangold, signed Woody and Faneca, and voila…instant top ten OL). And that drove the team But since then we’ve had shitshow at GM and JD has broken that trend I get the argument that we shouldn’t be comparing to the shit Jets run of GMs but instead comparing to the league. I get that But to me, he’s done a great job turning us around. I know the record hasn’t been there but that was one year of Gase, his first year he didn’t run the draft, and in the end, he had to really TEAR DOWN and rebuild…we’ve not done a full tear down since I don’t know when. That takes time. Yes his first draft looks like a total waste now…but it was with a different coach and his first one. I do think he’s improved the roster tremendously….last year several of our cut players found jobs right away…when is the last time THAT happened? He needs to fix this OL once and for all, and I’ve been critical of his approach there…first in signing 2nd their stopgap type guys, then on relying on fucking Becton, and yes he missed on Mims and Moore, and most notably Zach (we’ll see what happens, but I think the chances of Zach developing into a true franchise QB worthy of the 2nd pick are very slim…shit I think there is legitimate serious doubt if he can even be a serviceable QB, let alone franchise QB. He hasn’t shown it yet, no matter how much some people want to point to “progress”…shit this morning I read how young QBs like Pickett led his team to a long drive and a TD, same with a few other young guys…hopefully he can do the same in today’s game. But to me, the chances are slim. So JD has whiffed on a bunch of draft picks, but the trajectory of the roster is up…it was no small feat to build a team that someone like AR wants to play for. That’s a heavy lift, and we’re more than halfway up the hill in my mind. So we’ll see…hopefully the W’s will come this year…but honestly, if you look at our roster now, we have a serious hole at OT, and then also concerns at S and LB, but other than that we are good. Solid DL, solid CB, solid WR…looking up
In four years as GM, he drafted James Farrior, Jason Fabini, Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington, and Laveranues Coles. Not the best drafting you'll ever see, but it wasn't bad.
Douglas is probably better than Idzik and Mac, though if this year's team collapses, he'll be in the same league as them. If the Rodgers-led Jets make back-to-back AFC championships or a Super Bowl, then we can put him in Tanny's league.
I'm not saying this year's class won't be good, but you can't call them great now like the post I was responding to did.
Here I disagree. A lot. Stats DO tell the real picture. That’s why they exist. Over years of NFL experience, we’ve figured out that yards per attempt and completion rate actually MATTER. They are the direct outputs of good QB play. Now the actual numbers change over time as the game changes. Back when Terry Bradshaw was winning 4 Superbowls, a 50% completion rate was pretty much the standard. But as the game has changed, those hard numbers change. The caveat I would add is that you need to look at a significant sample size, right? Basic Statistics 101. Given a small sample size, stats can absolutely lie. And sure, there are always circumstances. Sure. But given a large enough sample size, those circumstances weed themselves out. So if we want to argue about circumstances with Zach, sure…his OL sucked balls, he had poor receivers his first year, he had MLF as his OC, whatever. We can point out all that shit all day long. In the end, a truly great QB would do well regardless…a great QB makes his receivers better, he doesn’t have as many drops because his throws are more accurate in stride, a great QB can make the hard throws look easy, let along make the the easy throws 5 yards to the flat look impossible half the time. So to me, if you evaluate a player, and have to go find excuses to explain away worst in the league stats, that’s on you. A great player doesn’t make you have to go find excuses. A great player just plays great. And you see flashes sooner rather than later. It doesn’t mean I’m a hater. I WANT Zach to succeed…I want our team to play great, and the greatest possible outcome is that Zach takes this reset and truly comes back better. But I’m also a realist. And in two years of him playing…he hasn’t yet had a complete great game. Not a one. His accuracy rate has been worst in the league. His passer rating has been worst in the league. Those are issues.
I said compared to top GMs he's been lousy, and compared to 1st time GMs he's been average. Its not a negative thing to say when the last 3 years we've gone 13-37.
How many teams that have to do a complete rebuild from the ground up have winning records? Not many, if any. Again, stats NEVER tell the whole story. I shouldn't have to remind a knowledgeable poster and Jets fan like you of that fact. You probably don't need reminding, it just doesn't fit your agenda. How many games have the Jets lost due to injuries over the last 3 years? Put all of those injured players on the field for all of those games and have them play at their expected level or even at their previous level, and that W-L record looks very different. Also, how many teams that go with a youth movement like the Jets and have a rookie starting QB, a rookie HC, rookie OC, rookie QB Coach and several other NFL rookie position coaches win a lot of games? Also, how many "top GMs" have to do a complete rebuild? The answer is none. No one starts out as a "top GM." They grow into the position and develop. Most of them had to do a rebuild or a re-tooling at least once, if not several times before they were recognized as "top GMs". So JD is just suppoed to be a "top GM" from day one and make no mistakes, and if not, he should be fired? That's the attitude I see from a ridculously high number of Jets fans and posters on this and other sites.
You can believe that stats tell the real picture if you want, but sorry, that's not reality. “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” — has been attributed to Mark Twain, who himself attributed it to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, who might never have said it in the first place. It's still a true statement, and I'm totally surprised that you think stats show the real picture. Stats show a partial picture, but never the full picture. In some situations, they can give more of the picture or a clearer picture perhaps, but never the whole picture. This discussion wasn't about QB play or Zach, but about JD and the Jets' W-L record over the last 3 years. I have no interest in getting into an argument with you regarding Zach. Is he a great player at present? No. Was he a great player day one in the NFL? No. Could he still develop into a very good, perhaps great QB, who is certainly good enough to lead a team to a SB victory? Yes. That's all I'm going to say about Zach and the QB position in this post. With regards, to JD, and the Jets' W-L record determining how good or bad he is, how many injuries have the Jets had over the last 3 years to starters and key backups?? Do you not think that those injuries had any bearing on the W-L record? If Becton never gets injured and plays even at the level of his rookie season, our W-L record looks a good bit better. If AVT never gets injured last season we probably win at least 1-2 more games. It's also not just the injuries, but then new players are brought in and have to learn and everyone as to adjust to them and they to everyone else. That serves as distractions that affect the level of play and progress. IMO the Jets had the worst roster in the NFL and it needed to be completely turned over. As part of that we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 D alignment and our offensive scheme changed. That always necessitates replacing a lot of players, at least it has for the Jets.
Those were all good picks, and were among his best picks. 1997 was a good draft. He drafted Farrior, Ward, Leon Johnson, and Jason Ferguson. He also drafted Rick Terry and Terry Day, and most of his middle and lower round picks were not good aside from Ferguson. His 1998 draft was awful. He had 12 draft picks and the only players who made the team and contributed anything at all were Fabini, Eric Ogbogu, Kevin Williams and Scott Frost, and really, Fabini was the only good player. Among his draft picks were Casey Dailey, Doug Karczewski, Blake Spence and Lawrence Hart. His '99 draft was better, and the 2000 draft was his best.
I’m with you on JD … I think we’re on the same page with him. Totally agree it was a complete tear down that was needed and he has done that and we are better off for it. I haven’t judged JD on W-L record because I think that’s not relevant with the job he had to do with a total rebuild. That being said, we are now at the point where we’re past that and I think the wins need to start coming and I totally believe they will. On Zach we are not aligned. I know the Mark Twain quote and I love it, but in this case we disagree. I think over a long enough period stays DO tell the story. If he continues to be a 53% passer with more picks than TDs and has the lowest passer rating then yeah I’ll still say he sucks. Like you, I HOPE he develops and becomes the guy we need him to be…I'm just WAY less confident that it’ll happen than you are…that’s ok
We are in agreement that if Zach continues to be a 53% passer with more picks than TDs, a low passer rating, and doesn't handle pressure well, then I'll join you and say he sucks. It's totally OK that we disagree regarding Zach. I can understand why you think the way you do about Zach.
The simple answer is you don't get Aaron Rodgers to consider let alone choose to helm the New York Jets unless they have a championship caliber team. Joe Douglas has done a yeoman's job turning a Dodge Dart into a Maserati. Go Jets.
Spot on! Excellent point. If this was the SOJ or a mediocre team, Rodgers would have either retired or gone back to GB. He certainly wouldn't have given back $35 million of his contract to help the team sign other players. The naysayers won't admit this because it goes against their negative world view.
Giving JD a pass for 2019 when Mac did the draft and FA; We've gone 3 years of finishing last in our Division We've gone 2-16 in divisional games We've won 13 games during our 3 year turnaround which places us above the 11 win Texans and in a tie with the only team that was worse then us in 2020, Last seasons playoff bound Jags. We've managed to be one of 3 AFC teams over that period to not make it to the postseason. ^That's not the record of a GM who should be sitting pretty, especially when the other GM's in your division have nailed or at least bettered your own swing on 'the most important position in football', in fact yours might go down as a rival to Ryan Leaf. Any team that you wouldn't traditionally put the pre-fix 'Long suffering' in front of would probably of let him go based on his production coupled with it ending in a six game losing skid. What he does have going for him is that we are 'long-suffering' and we grasp onto the tiniest sliver of fortune in the hope it'll change our luck. So now we and JD ride on the veteran shoulders of Aaron Rodgers and if we still end up with a poor divisional record that places us out of the playoff race then he 100% has to go.
I loved it when Parcells was here, but he chose those guys amongst A TON of picks. He also had some head scratchers like Dorian Boose, Scott Frost, Rick Terry. Perhaps a different GM gets Peyton Manning to decide the Jets aren't a bad option? I don't know. I did not miss Parcells the grocery shopper. I missed the HC real bad.
