Come on, do you actually believe garbage you post here. The New York Yankees are not New York the word would be Icons, not landmarks, Come on, please top the ludicrousy and get a clue. Why don't you visit the Major League Baseball hall of fame and tell me all about this team from another city, with another name. WHAT A JOKE!!!
Care or don't care, it means nothing to me, although you not caring hardly makes such things a joke. I've spent way too much time talking about this, because I don't really care what they think either, but I'm not foolish enough to think that that means that no one else might, or that the results don't reflect the actual opinion among major league players. Ascribing the feelings of those players as jealousy is also ridiculous and condescending, as it implies that no one can possibly objectively evaluate Jeter any differently than you have. The question posed was "Who is the most overrated player in baseball?". The names of the people named make it clear that, as anyone would expect, people interpreted the word "is" to mean present tense - how they play now relative to their reputation and salary (the second choice was Barry Zito, others in the top 10 included Andruw Jones and Curt Schilling). It really isn't that complicated, and your persistent need to dismiss this result as meaningless doesn't make it so.
Yes I meant .300. Injuries are part of it but in one of the few poor postseaosns he's had he was hurting yet he still came up w/ big plays. You can picking out 3 ABs... but the point is even whgen he has struggled he has come through for us unlike ARod who has been awful and not done anything to help us win the past 3 series. He has had 1 bad postseason in recent years, his last bad postseason was 2001 and again he started out hot but got hurt and his #s suffered. The biggest difference btw Jeter the last few years and Jeter his first half of his career was that he had hitters around him who could also hit in october. he cannot do it by himself, he started & continued many rallies in the dynasty years but w/o help he couldn't have been in thiose situations. It would be nice if guys like ARod could hit like they are capable of in october and we'll see the same Jeter we used to see in postseason. it's hard to have clutch hits w/o opportunities.
Whatever, you yourself said you don't care about it, and neither do I. I thought it was a joke that the players could be so far apart on their opinions, that Jeter could actually be number 1 in two opposite categories. Sorry but results like that make me put little value in these polls, and in the players opinions, it has nothing to do with my personal opinions being the only one I can accept. The fact that the opinion of Jeter fluctuates from the extreme positive to the extreme negative, from poll to poll and week to week is funny to me, so I called them a joke. I certainly would not subscribe to or invest in anything resembling such an inconsistency of opinion. The Polls, basically determined that by popular opinion of MLB players that Jeter is both the most over rated player, and the player the majority of players would start their team with. That is going to get a laugh every time, it even sounds like a joke.
Jeter did poorly in 3 of his last 7 postseason series (2003 ALCS, 2004 ALCS, 2007 ALDS), and as I noted, 5 of his last 11. Yes, the leadoff double in the bottom of the 8th of game 7 of the 2003 ALCS was good, but how about leaving the tying run at second in the bottom of the 8th in the losing game 6? Pointing to one successful at bat as "proof" while ignoring another unsuccessful one doesn't actually prove anything at all. Jeter has been far more inconsistent in the years since 2001 compared to the ones before it, and noticeably worse (interestingly, and perhaps coincidentally, he's been better in the ALDS than the ALCS or WS since 2001). This is nothing to be ashamed of; his play in the early years (like that of many of his teammates) was extraordinary, and it wasn't likely he'd keep it up. In fact, the one guy who has been amazingly constant over the years is the guy I would consider the Yankees most important player through the years, Mariano Rivera: W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA 4 0 41 0 0 0 31 19 63 40 5 5 10 49 2 0.71 4 1 35 0 0 0 30 15 54.1 32 7 5 6 44 0 0.83 The last thing I want to do is get into one of these Jeter/A-Rod things, but since A-Rod has been on the Yankees, the performances of the two players have been very similar, but as I said earlier, they're graded on different curves: 24 116 103 16 30 6 0 4 16 9 0 17 0 3 1 5 3 1 .291 .345 .466 .811 24 113 94 15 23 6 0 4 9 14 1 22 5 0 0 3 3 2 .245 .372 .436 .808 A-Rod did plenty to help win the 2004 ALDS, and was great in the first three (winning) games of the ALCS that year. Since then he hasn't done well, although blaming him for the 2007 ALDS seems pretty unfair, as he was 2/4 in the game 3 win and 2/4 in the game 4 loss.
The second poll never said that - only 12% of the players said that he was the player they're start their team with, which is nowhere near the majority. I've already said that three times, so I don't really understand why you don't (or can't) get it. Oh, and by the way, Jeter didn't captain four championship teams; in fact, he has never captained any championship team. He was named captain on June 3, 2003, and since that time the Yankees have played in 8 postseason series and lost five of them. And of any statistic anyone could mention, that is the least important - being captain of a baseball team means nothing, and being captain of the Yankees really means nothing when it comes to winning championships in the last 30 years. The Yankees won 1 WS in the 4 years Everett Scott was captain, 4 WS in the 6 years Lou Gehrig was captain, and 2 WS in the 3 years Thurman Munson was captain, but in the 30 years since then they have had a captain in 16 of them, and have not won a WS in any of those years.
Good point but, he acted like the captain, even before they named him, which is why they announced it. I'm pretty sur Jeter wanted to keep it under wraps, as Munson was the last Yankees announced Yankee Captain. Either way like you said that is not important, and does not change his career status a lick. As far as the 12% again I did not see any proportions in the poll I saw, but Jeter was voted #1 player MLB'ers would start a team with, it was in sports illustrated. So not the majority but still the most votes, still #1.
So in order to be considered a clutch player you have to come through EVERY time? The man started the rally that tied game 7 of the ALCS, he also tied up Game 3 where we could have went down 2 games to 1. The point is even w/ a bad series he still came through when we needed him most. Again,, 5 of 11 w/ 2 of them b/c he was playing hurt. it's also 5 of 14 and 6 of 19. The guy has been a consistent playoff performer his entire career w/ a few blips of poor play. Maybe b/c since '01 he's only played past the ALDS 3 times? once again he was hurt for 2 of those series and in his last WS appearance he hit .346. So really it's 2 of 3 series we are talking about. That's not much of a trend. Mariano was our most important player, I don't think we win 4 titles in 5 years w/o him. I think Jeter was our most important position player(arguments can be made for Bernie and O'Neill). ARod had 1 1/2 good series' out of 5, Jeter had 3 of 5. ARod has ONE RBI since Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS(16 games). ARod went RBI-less in '05 and '06, even when Jeter stunk last year he had an RBI and ARod is in an RBI spot and the much better hitter so their #s should not be close. He had ZERO RBi in the first 2 games, he had 5 in Games 3 & 4 but went 1 for 12 w/ ZERO RBI nover the last 3 games. He didn't do plenty to help us win, he did more than Jeter in that series but his 5 RBI were good enough for 3rd behind both Matsui and Benrie who had 10 RBI each, oh and he tied for 3rd w/ 5 RBI w/ Derek Jeter!(and Sheffield).
No, you don't have to come through every time, but you can't pick and choose the one at bat you like and ignore all of the others either, and expect to be taken seriously. The only reason he "came through when it mattered most" is that all of the players behind him got hits; otherwise that hit means nothing. You castigate A-Rod for not getting an RBI, but glorify Jeter for getting a hit that didn't drive in a run either. Of course it didn't - no one was on base - which is exactly my point. Your argument is based on how things turned out that had nothing to do with Jeter at all, yet you give him credit for his great clutchness. This is precisely the sort of argument that Jeter-haters find laughable (and by the way, I am not a Jeter-hater; I just find the "intangibles" arguments mostly based on the same perception biases that result in people not understanding randomness and probability in general). There is no measure of any kind that doesn't show that Jeter has been far more inconsistent since 2001 than he was beforehand, and when he has played poorly, he has played very poorly. He has not been a consistent playoff performer for years, unlike Rivera, or David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez (who has actually become more consistently good through the years), for example. By definition this doesn't mean that he has always been bad; sometimes he has been excellent, and sometimes he has played poorly. This is blindingly obvious, and I don't know why you refuse to simply acknowledge these obvious facts.
If you look back, you'll see that my arguments were never based on clutchitude at all, just overall level of play and consistency of that level of play. I will admit that the mistake I made was responding to the "he's great even when he sucks" nature of three specific at bats in two otherwise horrible series. I apologize to all TGG posters for my poor judgement on that score.
i doubt that you beleive that as a red sox fan because we all know that david ortiz is the clutchiest clucthmiester out there.
How over rated is Johan Santana looking right about now? No wonder the Mets got him for nothing, he would be a wreck in the AL.
