Jeter is a one of those guys who manages to be somehow overrated and underrated at the same time. Some people think he is the greatest player of all time because of all of his "intangibles" and "grittiness". The value of a player is something that should be viewed quantitatively, by you know, looking at what he ACTUALLY DOES rather than simply calling him Mr. Clutch. If you had a 30 year old person with only one arm who was super gritty, a great leader, and went all out they would not be a good baseball player because they wouldn't be able to play the game at all. And as assholy and snarky as that sounds, I honestly think a lot of people don't keep that in mind when judging players. How do I know that? Because if people looked at the results of Jeter's play, rather than the city he plays in and his portrayed character, they would see that Jeter is a very, very good, certainly HOF player but probably nowhere in the top players of all time discussion. A career OPS + of 122 is damn good for a short stop, but his defense is absolutely atrocious.
Who's "some people?" He's my 2nd favorite player in Sports behind Curtis Martin, but I never hear people say he's the greatest player of all time...Come on.
Jeter isn't a bad player, but he's certainly not an elite player, he hits for good avg wioth ok power and speed and horrible range at ss.
Depending on healthy it might be 4,000 and beyond. he's at a pace better than Pete Rose was at the same stage of their careers.
Maybe not single greatest player, but I've often heard him refereed to as one of the top 5, or the best Yankee of all time. Anyways, those "people" I refer to being anyone who says that Jeter is better than A-Rod. Seeing as A-Rod is clearly, definitively one of the best players of all time, when someone says that Jeter is better than A-Rod they clearly are saying that they think Jeter is near the top of the list of the best players of all time. If you want I can dig up all the Jeter splooge fest articles, but that'd get a little boring. The thing about whether or not a player is overrated is that its not just about the players credentials as a player, but about how you perceive the general public as viewing that player, so it's always subjective.
ARod is the more gifted player and will put up the better #s BUT ARod doesn't do it in october while Jeter has most his career. He was in the middle of just about every rally during the dynasty years, we had alot less talent w/ the bats during those years but they always performaed in october. The last few years we've had unbeleivable offensive talent that fades away in october. Give me the guy who does it when it matters most. ARod is great but in October I want jeter up at bat. April-September #s are nice but ARod has been an embarrassment in October. I no longer cringe when ARod comes up in a big spot in the reg season, hopefully he finally puts it together in October and when he does the 2 will not be close.
I've never heard Jeter referred to as a "Top 5" player of all time unless if it was from a 13 year old. Now, their is nothing wrong with Jeter being in the discussion as greatest Yankee of all-time, he ISN'T, that's obviously Babe Ruth. But when you have 4 rings, 8-time All-Star, 1st Yankee captain since Mattingly retired, been a World Series MVP, very durable, will be the 1st Yankee with 3,000 hits, and when you're one of the guys who is taken as "Bottom 9th, 2 outs, man on 3rd, down 2-1, who do you want at the plate?" Now you will probably say, if Jeter can be discussed as the greatest Yankee of all-time, but you say Ruth, who might be the greatest baseball player of all-time, how can he not be in the Top 5? It's obvious that Jeter defensively isn't that good, his power has never been good, though his next HR will be #200, weird. He just ISN'T a Top player of all-time, it's that simple. And I'll agree that their are some Yankees fans who will take Jeter over ARod solely because it's Jeter's team, he's proven to be a winner, and as much as I like Jeter, you take ARod in a second over Jeter with no questions asked. Yes it's great that Jeter is awesome in the post-season, but that isn't a reason to take him over maybe the greatest player of all-time.
Jeter's clutch ability is amazing. Thats why when he hit into double plays last year in the playoffs it was so surprising. He is that good that you expect him to get those hits.
Jeter's postseason performance splits remarkably clearly into two parts. In his first 66 games (through the 2001 ALDS), these are his stats: G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 66 301 262 50 87 11 3 8 22 31 0 55 3 4 1 3 11 3 .332 .407 .489 .896 In the 57 games since then, these are his stats: G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 57 262 233 35 66 11 0 9 27 20 1 41 2 4 3 7 5 1 .283 .341 .446 .787 Not coincidentally, the Yankees were 49-17 in the first 66 games, and 27-30 in the last 57. This is precisely why some people say that they would build a team around him, and others say that he is overrated; they're talking about effectively two different players. That's also why I said in my earlier post that no one would have been talking about him as overrated 8 years ago. Remarkably enough, A-Rod's numbers also have a massive split. Here are his postseason numbers with Seattle: G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 15 57 53 6 18 3 0 3 8 3 0 16 0 1 0 1 1 1 .340 .375 .566 .941 Here are his postseason numbers with the Yankees: G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 24 113 94 15 23 6 0 4 9 14 1 22 5 0 0 3 3 2 .245 .372 .436 .808 The Mariner A-Rod and pre-2001 Jeter have surprisingly similar postseason numbers (with A-Rod's slightly better), and the Yankee A-Rod and the post-2001 Jeter have very similar numbers. Of course, both players are graded on a curve - A-Rod's regular season numbers are far better than Jeter's, so if they are comparable in the postseason it looks worse for A-Rod - but objectively speaking the two players' postseason numbers are much more similar than they are different. What is overwhelmingly different are the two players' team performances in the earlier time period (49-17 versus 7-8).
Jeter at the end of his 33 year old season had 19 more hits then Rose did at the end of his 33 year old season. Rose also played until he was 45 years old, you really don't think Jeter is going to play that long, do you?
It is clear from reading some of the responses that Derek Jeter is the Second Coming or at least the human version of Secretariat. I believe Hank Steinbrenner should make Jeter retire at the end of this season and stud him out. Someday the Yankees will field an entire lineup of Jeter offspring.
How many has it been for you?? Anyway back on topic, Jeter is overrated imo but he still is a clutch (Mr. November DUH) and is still an above average shortstop. I would still take him over reyes anyday though, i could never deal with his antics and his "Mental lapses"
A-Rod has been an embarrassment in the post-season? 409/.480/.773; 2 HR, 5 RBI 421/476/737; 1 HR 3 RBI 258/.378 /.516; 2 HR 5 RBI .279 .361 .483; 7 HR 17 RBI; 39 Games Those are A-Rod's lines in the 2000 ALCS, '04 ALDS, and '04 ALCS, two monster series for A-Rod and one solid one. Then on the bottom,his lifetime career post-season line, with the most important stat probably being the 39 games, indicating a very small sample-size.
It's not as black and white as that seems. In '01 he was having a great postseason until he fell into the photographer's area in Game 5 against Oak and got hurt, he was playing hurt the rest of that postseason and his #s were affected. Of his next 9 series he was over .300 in 6 of them(compared to over .500 in 9 of his 1st 13) and what seperates Jeter from ARod is even when he was having bad postseasons he still had big moments(except for last year) like the HR against AZ in the '01 WS, his HR in Game 3 of the '03 ALCS, he started rally in the 8th inning of Game 7 of the '03 ALCS I don't know, did we know Pete would play until he was 45 30 years ago? I'm not saying Jeter will pass his record but he's on pace which is remarkeable for a guy who is so overrated. Says the Met fan in another Yankee thread. Did I really have to type as a Yankee? Does it matter to us what he did in Seattle? He had a good start w/ a good series against Minny then a good start to the ALCS but since Game 5 of the ALCS in 2004 he has gone 8 for 97(.082) w/ ONE RBI. Matsuzaka in 3 WS AB's last year had a hit and TWO RBI so in one game an AL pitcher has more RBI than ARod in his last 97 postseason ABs. Also, in Jeter's 25 postseason series he has gone RBI-less in TWO of those series while ARod as a Yankee in just 5 series has gone RBI-less in TWO series. Yep, he's been amazing for us in October:drunk: He has alot of work to do to catch up to Jeter in October.
