Sorry... I guess what I'm trying to say is, I expect to be crapped on in here to a certain degree and I think I've taken it pretty well... can we call a limit at some point? I guess I thought you might want a different point of view on your boards... it's not like this is a bragging moment for patriots fans.
Except nobody is arguing that the success alone indicates cheating. They are arguing that success significantly different after a rule change than the success (or failure) prior to the rule change indicates that the rule change altered their success, and subsequent information that the rule change was manipulated in an illegal way indicates that subsequent success is likely a result not from the rule change itself but an illegal manipulation that was merely taken advantage of that the rule change made achievable.
Before a Pats fan posts this, here's a NYTimes article that defends the Patriots scientifically. Take it or leave it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/s...ave-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?_r=0 Actually JK, Grogan already posted it, but it's worth a read. The bolded part is our only hope, haha.
I love the fact you've been so shot down, the fact is even if the divergence isn't as large it's still there and it's still glaring and it's still provable and it all correlates to the when the Patriots were able to start using their own well stroked balls.
Just to show what a joke this whole issue is: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/ I don't know, but when you "sources" and "reports" tell you about a 2psi difference and every media outlet in the country screams at the Patriots for two weeks straight, this is kind of a perfect example that actual facts trump "sources" every single time. Kind of hard to prove anything when the NFL refs don't even care. Not recording psi level changes is kind of a big thing if you want to charge someone of something. "I'm sure they did something!" is not a very solid argument, no matter how hard you would like to believe it. Funny how this news hasn't made it to ESPN or SI or almost any other site. Why let facts ruin a good story?
WTF. The one you linked fully twisted words to fit it. Click on the hyperlinks in it to dig into the sources. The PRE-GAME PSI was not logged. As in, the ref did not write a note of the PSI for each ball prior to the game, merely approved or disapproved them. It goes on to say that "the balls were properly tested prior to the game". It gives no mention to whether the half-time PSIs were logged.
There's no twisting of words whatsoever. They did not log the pregame PSI of each ball. Probably not for the Colts either. You think they logged it at half time then? That's the conclusion you come up with? It doesn't matter one bit, because there is no baseline. From what are they down from? "The balls were properly tested" can also mean "oops we fucked up and they felt pretty good to me!. Again, doesn't matter if you don't have a recorded starting point. Anyway that 2psi "source" is utter bullshit, but that's been known from the start. Twist twist twist away all you want but this operation is the biggest joke of the year. And Ray Rice incident happened this season, so that's saying something.
http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-...uchdown-play-was-illegal?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo Damn yet another.
yep that Solder TD should not have counted. the NFL has already implemented a mechanical change, where refs will indicate to the defense where players of an eligible number are not eligible, and vice versa, via hand signals. ie, point with 2 fingers when eligible, do a miss field goal signal for ineligible. i would guess the NFL completely changes how the wording of eligibility is written for next season. there is a reason players have to wear specific numbers depending on position. the Pats were trying to exploit the spirit of that rule, and combine that with further exploiting substitution rules and the 'hurry up' offense. ie, lining up players for eligibility/ineligibility deceptively according to the number jersey they have and how they are aligned, then sprint up to the LOS while the other team substitutes. hopefully the refs will properly slow down that LOS sprint BS, and correctly identify eligibility with these new hand signals for the Super Bowl. that will actually help the refs get their own calls correct as well. no bullshit this game, and adjust the rules accordingly in offseason. really that was all Harbaugh was asking for in the divisional game. he got the change implemented, just a game too late. again, why does the league always have to adjust and/or clarify rules due to the Patriots? this year they've had to make at least two adjustments mid playoffs!
The fact that the refs didn't log thr psi before the game is irrelevant. The refs never have done so and are not required to do so. They are only required to test the psi and make sure the balls are inflated to the proper level. No one needed to log anything to determine footballs were 2 psi below the required threshold. The minimum of 12.5 is logged in the rulebook. Your conclusion is what is utter bullshit. Whatever caused the balls to be under inflated only did so in the first half to the Patriots balls. So yea - to anyone who isn't a pats fan it seems obvious they were manually deflated. That's why there is an ongoing investigation.
Well it does not need to be logged. So now pat fans are blaming for refs...... Just give it up cheat or fans
That wasn't the conclusion I came up with. I came up with the conclusion that the article states the obvious, which is the pre-game PSI was not logged because it didn't need to be for approval. The ref only has to measure and approve or disapprove the ball. They've already come out and said that the balls were properly tested. Whether you believe that's true or not is up to you. But the article is completely unrelated to the balls by under-inflated by up to 2 PSI at half time. By under-inflated, I take it to mean under the legal limit, not from their exact starting PSI pre-game. Best-case 2 PSI under the average maybe, which would still be 1.5 PSI under. From the sounds of the Pats press conferences though, they wanted their balls near the 12.5 PSI limit so the previous is more likely at this stage. And just doing a quick bit of math, as has been mentioned 90 F required for balls to drop 2 PSI. 80 F to drop 1.5 PSI. Maaaybe a bit more believable? This all assumes that the balls end up at outside ambient temperatures over time, which is debatable as well depending on the material properties and how they were stored/handled during the first half. At the fairly standard room temperature of 23 C / 73.4 F, a 1.2 PSI drop is possible with the pressure differentials. However, for that same temperature at 13.5 PSI starting pressure, the maximum the colts could be at, dropping from 73.4 F to 50 F would push them down to 12.3 PSI, below the legal limit. Yet they weren't, which indicates that the balls didn't reach equilibrium with outside ambient temperature over the first half. Makes sense since air isn't the best of conductors, and just a cursory glance at the materials used (rubber bladder with cowhide exterior) would probably insulate the internal air pretty well. Think waterskins and how they used to keep the fluid inside cool in some pretty hot climates. Personally, still waiting for more official information to make a better informed decision, but the circumstantial evidence is definitely stacking up against the Pats. As a Jets fan, it definitely has been intriguing, and so damning and disappointing if true, especially if it is established that it wasn't a one-off thing. Since following the sport, I've respected Brady as one of the greats, even if I dislike the Pats and a number of the fans. It may end up with a tainted legacy as a QB at this stage, to me at the very least, though it would probably settle the Manning/Brady debate.
Haha not sure if you were meaning to quote me or the other guy. I was pointing that out, though with a few more words.
Can someone post the Drew Brees appearance on Conan O'Brien? I can't because of my work network. Brees guesses the exact PSI on two balls.
