How many O lnemen taken in the top ten since 2000 have made the pro bowl? ONE.... Chris Samuels, ONCE. For every Pace and Ogden, there are tow busts. Yes, the % of O linemen NOT being complete busts are higher than other positions. Many more never live up to their draft slots. Mike Williams was suppossed to be a can't miss.... and some will argue about his weight problems, etc, but he was a top five BUST. If Ferguson was a better than average run blocker, I'd like him at 4, but he isn't. He's the best pass blocker to come out in a long time, but for a #4 OL, I want more than a one dimensional player, which is what he is at this point. Like any draft pick, he has upside.... what really keeps him so highly rated is his character, smarts and work ethic. On those counts, he is very top shelf. So, many people put his upside higher, and he is I agree, a lower risk pick than maybe any other kid in this draft..... but he's no Pace. Not yet.... he could be.... but not yet.
Well I have a solution for you then...dont watch a singel play next year...seriously, mabye you should be on ESPN with Mort and Clayton if you can predict the NFL season? Wanna go to vagas with me and help me select the SB winner? I know that ws sarcastic, but come on man. We are in the WIN NOW era. A #4 pick is expected to produce from day one....PERIOD! IMO Brick in his 1st year will be = to AJ, AT BEST.
wow. 2 HOFs you've named. Look at all the rookies and out of, what, 150+ rookies or more, maybe a 10th of that contribute to their teams, and maybe like 5 rookies a year really deliver. Theres a reason why there arent many 1000yd rookie WRs, 1000yd rookie rbs, 100+tackle lbs, 10+ sack DEs, etc. Out of last years rookie draft class, only a handful made an impact: Lofa Tatupa Odell Thurman Shawn Merriman Cadillac Williams Derrick Johnson Kirk Morrison So lets not act like all rookies deliver. I was able to name 6 of the top of my head out of 255 rookies drafted.
Really? That shocks me. Well, they don't say bad but, I've read at least a half dozen that say BELOW AVERAGE... Start with Mike Mayocks report and try Googling D'brickashaw BELOW AVERAGE.... If you still can't find ANY - I'll come back later when I have time and I'll assemble a list of BELOW AVERAGE reports...
Really? A QB drafted in the top 5 is supposed to produce from day one? That win now thinking is what caused the old regime to not seriously address the OL for the past 5 years. This team is rebuilding and can't afford anymore old vet signings and late round projects to try to address the line. When you rebuild, you think long term, especially along the trenches. I have no idea what you peope saw last year in Jones that have you all in love with him? Was it a play you saw? A stat? All I saw the pocket collapsing, and Vinny and Bolly running for their lives. He didn't even start his first year, and last year he started at RT for half the season, so it is not like he is a natural and learns quickly. I am serious here, other than you guys liking someone better to draft, what has you all sold on Jones?
Bad is not the same as "BELOW AVERAGE." Most of those reports that say "BELOW AVERAGE" attribute it to his lack of bulk. Those same reports also say his frame can hold an additional 15-20lbs, which would improve his run blocking a great deal. Why the sarcasm by the way? What the fact that I have not jumped on the Williams love train bothers you?
Im watching my Jets play and hoping they win, but im not a dumbass. Not everything is like Rocky Balboa, where the underdog wins. I wasnt one of the fans last year hoping we tank games so we could get Reggie Bush. If you think Rome can be built in a day, then I've got a a goose who lays golden eggs here for sale in youre interested. And the notion that a top 4 pick is suppose to deliver from day one is ridiculous. Do you even understand the concept that players are transitioning from being the best athlete on the field to being some snot nose rookie getting dominated by avg NFL players. Thats ridiculous. 2005 1. Alex Smith - did nothing 2. Ronnie Brown - showed flashes 3. Braylon Edwards - showed flashes got injured. wasnt on pace to do anything impressive 4. Cedric Benson - didnt crack the starting lineup 2004 1. Eli Manning - did nothing 2. Robert Gallery - did nothing 3. Larry Fitzgerald - showed flashes 4. Philip Rivers - never saw the field 2003 1. Carson Palmer - never saw the field 2. Charles Rogers - did nothing and was injury plagued 3. Andre Johnson - showed flashes 4. Dewayne Robertson - lmao, need i say anything I can do this for days and maybe a handful might turn up productive in there rookie year. If we draft Mario Williams, there no guarantee hes getting 14 plus sacks his rookie year. We draft Leinart, theres no guarantee hes marching us into the playoffs. We draft Hawk, theres no guarantee hes gonna start from day one and dominate. The fact you have to realize is that rookies arent reall that productive. Usually by the 2nd or 3rd yr they hit their stride. I can understand you wanting to be optimistic, but dont make it seem like im not a Jets fan because i dont expect them to win it all this year. I just put 2 and 2 together and know it makes 4.
Thats the stupidest thing i've ever heard. because whos to say hes available. Many teams dont let elite LTs just walk away. You make it seem like its impossible to keep a player on the team. Last i checked, Ogden, Pace, Jones, Tarik Glenn, Chris Samuels, etc, still on the team that drafted them.
I'm not even gonna comment on the notion that we shouldn' take Brick b/c Gallery hasn't lived up to his potential thus far. The careers of Pace, Jones, Bosselli, and Ogden speak for themselves. I will however compare Gallery and Ferguson as prospects. It sounds complicated, but Gallery was the more complete prospect, but Ferguson is the more attractive player. Why? Gallery was considered a top 5 guy b/c he was very good in all facets of being a quality lineman. He may not have graded out as a guy who could be dominant in any one area, but he was polished and well rounded. He also came from an OL friendly program that typically produces linemen w/ very good technique and great weight room habits. Add in maturity and an on the field mean streak, and you had a no brainer top 5 selection. Meanwhile, Ferguson may not be as well rounded, as he still has some bulk to add to his frame and needs to improve his run blocking, but he is about as elite as it gets as a pass blocker. Gm's love that fact, as guys like Dwight Freeney and Julius Peppers have made life miserable for alot of QB's. A guy who can truly hang w/ them athletically(theoretically) is extremely rare and very valuable. Run blocking can be improved w/ technique polish and time in the weight room. But the natural athleticism to be a top notch pass blocker, cannot be taught and only comes around once every 10 years. That is what sets Brick apart as an OT prospect.
Ok, now this is where I take you to school. 1st...Jones was a 7th round selection..AS A TIGHTEND. He learns extreemly fast. He moves to RT at the start of last year because we had no other option. Herm and crew did not replace Mckenzie, and the new zone idea was even more for him to digest. Then Fabini goes down....move jones to LT, where he was the most constant o-linman the entire year... Fast forward...his vet linemate next to him moves to center, due to our Prowl Bowl, Hall of fame center going down. So now he has a guy who is basically a rookie himself next to him in goodwin, and oh yeah a center who is a guard calling out blitz pick-up. Add in rookie Rb that has to pick up blitzes and cant recognize a stunt from a SAM blitz and Jones is on an island.... So consider what the line really went through last year and then you may see that he actually did a nice job. If he can have Pete next to him for the entire year, a center that is not a guard and Curtis chipping spead rushers and stunts....he will be more than adequet. Mabye you should know show you know a little more than just the plain old..."he did not show me anything last year" answer. Understand what he had to overcome and then make and educated statement.
So what happens when they flip the D-line and the LE moves to the right side...and he get bull rushed to next week? or the stack the other side of line when we run the ball...because they know we wont run to his side?
Excellent post, and one of the best arguments I've seen for D'Brick thus far. With his work ethic/character, he could easily put on the strength to become and above average run blocker and learn the technique needed.
These are legit issues that come about w/ every single prospect. You have to think long term and realize that time in the weight room and work on his technique will make him alot better at run blocking as well as defending the bull rush. Basically what I'm saying is, defending the bull rush and improving run blocking can be manipulated, natural athleticism to defend a pass rusher cannot.
assuming that he will still not be an elite and he is a project, meaning that he is a decent tackle, but we hope we can get him better, what I meant is that I like proved players in the o-line rather than rookies who just come and do a bunch of mistakes, I mean if he is not going to shine in his first years why get him now, I know the team is rebuilding but if the jets spend three losing seasons in the Mangini era people are going to call for his head on the streets, and what I will not like to see if we draft him is that he leaves this team when his contract is finished or finish traded like John Abraham or in any case like Lamont or Moss.
I agree with you Kurt. If you read back...I am a fan of Brick for his potential. I just think that all around...we go with a guy like McNeil at #29 or #35 and keep Jones. That way we can kill 2 birds with one stone, I would have a hard time arguing that Brick will suck. He wont, he will be a good o-lineman in the years to come.
