Sure a bust - he's one of the team leaders in sacks - that about tells you all you need to know as to the coaching capabilities the Jets have shown with is D. The whole fu$king dam Defense is bust if you want to use that term. Lee and Jonathan Vilma are the exact same size and build - Vilma a 1st round pick also, that went on to have a very successful NFL career with the Jets & Saints. Coaching is the issue here, not the player.
Good point Bomber, I always thought Vilma was bigger but you called it. Vilma thrived in a 4-3 role and struggled with the switch to 3-4 under Mangini. His career took off again when he went to saints who played the 4-3 at the time they won the SB. That's something else that bothers me with this team, every supposedly good defensive player Mac has drafted has been labeled overrated. Are they really overrated? Or are they just not being put in good situations by Kaci?
I think Lee can play in a 3-4 (however the Jets play more nickel then any other team in the league), but he needs a bruising linebacker to help him out in terms of taking on blockers. Darron Lee is Robin, he needs a Batman. Davis and Lee are essentially the same exact player. They do the same damn thing on the field.
Vilma and Lee could be looking in a mirror and see the other. The very same size and stature. It also seems their weaknesses are the same? They both suck in a 3-4 and it's not just Kaci Rogers that's to blame. Bob Sutton couldn't get Vilma on the right track either. The irony is so thick you could choke on it. Mac was too fucking dumb and never bothered to read Jets history books Bottom line and like I've been saying since he was drafted -it's a wasted pick. Lee isn't quite Vernon Gholston, but a total waste of time and symptomatic of Mac not having a plan b when all the top OT's disappeared off the board in the top 10.
You don't think Lee would play better in the type of attacking 4-3 Greg williams used versus the cover 2 approach that Sutton still uses?
Vilma struggles in manginis 3-4 because he was trying to fit d rob in at nt. I think if Vilma was ilb behind Jenkins he would have been ok. We never should have been in a 3-4 that first year. We had no players for it
Kris Jenkins was a beast, and the one surely missed when he got hurt. If Lee were to play behind either behind Kris or Snacks, we would probably see a much more improved D. Lee. Jets are really hurting for top notch DT.
Big Red....you hit the nail right on the head. A great coach changes the schemes to fit the personnel. Not the other way around.
Plus a mill No one wants to remotely agree with you because you are ANGRY and RIGHT First rounders are big impact players from day one...case in point Lees OSU teammate Joey Bosa starts tearing it up for Chargers first game going forward Coincidently Bosa will be in town on Sunday...take a wild guess who will have a better game !! lmao Gut says this Teams love affair with Drafting for Defense ends in the coming draft Lee...first round pick my ass...just laughable how people homer for him Dude never had true fans at OSU either...goes out for a stroll and gets jumped????
Yeah Lee and his slight statute , he needs the beef up front to navigate thru space. McClendon has been decent this year but he's not a true NT...Wilk has been mediocre all year, so you only got Leonard who was solid. That's tough for a defense...The Jets need some bodies if they are going to continue this 3-4.
Well, it's funny you should mention that? Yes, I absolutely do think he'd be great, WAY better than in a 3-4. The problem is, that's not the kind of defense Toilet plays? Toilet is a stubborn dingbat that insists on playing a 3-4 hybrid. Mac should have known Lee would not work in this defense given Toilets tendencies.
Thank you for the kind words. I really try not to appear to be so angry? The problem is I love this team and wear my anger on my shirt sleeve. So my posts always reflect the inevitable disappointment this team always provides. It's not a good thing. But on topic, really what I think Mac did was 1) he didn't read Jets history books? If he had, he would've learned the lessons of prototypical 4-3 players transitioning to a 3-4. It's a hard switch, much harder than it looks. 2) He gets tunnel vision for the BPA. Lee was the BPA at 20 in 2016. The problem with that is the BPA is NOT always the BPA for the defense you play. Lee is a prime example of someone not cut out to play in a 3-4. 3) I also think Mac is afraid of making bold moves? Trading up to get Laremy Tunsil in that draft would've been a bold move. But a move that was necessary nevertheless. It was obvious Mac had eyes on OL in that draft? Lee was not his 1st choice. In order to get what he truly coveted, an OT, it would have required making a bold move. I also think he truly BELIEVED Christian Hackenberg was the guy. He would not have been able to obtain Hack if he had traded up. Instead, now we have a 1st and 2nd rounders that are all but useless. Hack IS useless. He's worse than Ryan Leaf if that's possible. Lee is extremely limited in what he can do in this defense.
plus plus plus man i have same frustration/anger thing going,,,watching a rookie GM and HC take their lumps on the learning curve One day down the road the sh#t Bowles and Mac took on the Jets will just be used as "experience " on a future resume when they go job hunting...look at all the other characters who came and went here ..Belichek Pete Carrol Parcells Lou Holz ....all went on to successful careers...the Jets are just a doormat where Coaches wipe their feet on the way onto something better so right now we have a clueless Coach and a GM who made some bad mistakes....if things dont improve I am done with this aggravation..grrr Heres an idea come Seasons end... if you are up in Main why dont you round up Cujo and take a trip down to One Jet Drive and let em loose in Bowles/Mac executive Suite?? ahahahahahah
Yes Lee and Vilma had similar builds but they were very different players. While Lee is a more athletically gifted player, Vilma was the more instinctual and smarter football player. Like Lee, Vilma at times in Mangini's 3-4 would get overpowered playing ILB but at least you could count on him to be where he was suppose to be. This is the biggest difference between them is football IQ. Vilma was the QB of the defense. He knew his responsibilities and everyone else's. What's more frustrating than Lee's lapses of physicality are the mental errors. There's really no reason for Lee to ever get beat by TEs or RBs out of the backfield as in most cases he is just as fast or faster than them. When you watch Lee closely, you see that he puts himself in a lot of poor situations with: fitting the wrong gaps, taking false steps, bitting hard on run action on obvious passing downs, taking bad angles, poor technique, undisciplined fouls...etc...etc.
Those that are blaming scheme and the d-line for Lee's failings need to explain to me why he get beat so easily and routinely in the passing game.
May be someone needs to wonder why we continue to screw around with a 3-4 after we let go of the best NT period, and we have a bunch of players better suited to the 4-3. So at least for the near term change the God damned strategy to fit what we have instead of continuing down this stupid road. Lee is not that good in coverage. Check. Neither was Harris. If the GM and HC are so far apart in what is needed then one or both need to go. Do we really think all these picks were made in a vacuum without Bowles involvement? Its pretty easy to second guess Hack selection but same could be said for a bunch of QB drafted every year, and same if he made a bold move in 2018 with any of the QBs and they don't pan out. None of them are a sure thing. Wish we could revisit the many comments on this board about how stupid the Rams were for wasting key draft picks and drafting Goff. A QB that really sucked, go figure. All we know is that the more we draft defense the worst this team plays. Sure smells like the problem is a lot more than just bad picks to me.
Problem with what you see is that I see the glass more half full. The impression from you're 'analysis' is that he's not making any plays at all. And that is far from accurate, imo. Lee does show the instincts because if he wasn't he wouldn't be making plays to fill the gaps or causing tackles for losses which he has on at least 7 occasions based on his 2017 stats. Not to mention 3 sacks, etc, etc. And to say that there is no reason for Lee to get beat, is like saying there is no reason for any LB in the league to not stop Gronkowski from catching any passes. Easier said than done. A bit ludicrous, don't you think?
Lee is not as bad as Calvin Pryor, but it is close. Like Lee, the reason Pryor hung around the jets for 3 years was not his play on the field, but the fact that he was a first round pick. Pryor sucked for the jets, browns, jags, and now I think the texans are trying to convince themselves of his worth. The jets will foolishly extend Bowles after a 5-11 2017, and he will keep his defensive coordinator. Lee will start every game next year assuming healthy, and he will make a few good plays, but teams will beat the jets by scheming against Lee (like the saints did i.e. run right at him). After the 2018 season the jets will fire Bowles and give Lee his walking papers after another 5-11 campaign. And then the jets will have to eat/pay off the stupid extension they gave Bowles after the 5-11 2017 campaign.
I don't know how in world you can compare Lee with Calvin Pryor. Pryor was a player that simply disappeared - if you heard his name called once in game it was probably due to him getting called for a penalty. He was horrible. Lee is making plays and at least making some difference.. Yes he's made mistakes and sometimes looks out of position, and yes he's a bit undersized for a ILB, But the Lee/ Pryor comparison. OMG.
My earlier post read that he is not as bad as Pryor, but close. As I pointed out earlier, they both got playing time largely because they were first round picks, not their performance on the filed--I didn't think that was such a hard concept to grasp. If Lee was a mid-round pick, do you really think he would get this much playing time? Every scoring play for the Saints involved picking on Lee. OMG he could not even take the RB down or even knock him out of bounds on that huge gain. His problem is that he is too small and cannot shed blocks, which is a huge problem for an ILB. You even admit that he looks out of position, makes mistakes and is undersized. Most of the comments on this board agreed with my original post--you can keep defending Bowles decision to start him if you want, at least until until Bowles finally gets his their walking papers.
