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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NOVAJET, Dec 28, 2020.
LOL Yes, I totally forgot about whatever compensation we'd get from Cincy!
I still think that JD wants to build a perennial championship team and he is not looking at the QB position as the ultimate factor.
Exactly. Basically based on the trade value chart going down from 2th overall to 4th overall is a 2nd (35th) and a 3rd. Then moving up from 23rd to 10th overall the price is a 2nd round pick 35th.
So basically you draft 4th overall and 10th overall + additional early 3rd
Instead of 2nd overall and 23rd.
You might need to trade all the way up to #8, according to this mock. Things will change, but is Lance does well at pre draft stuff, could be very realistic. Teams value QBs with athletic ability and big arm, who had some success in College. You start screwing around, you end up without either one of them. Then what? Next year's class is weak. Hoping we can get lucky one way or the other? I am not holding my breath. We need to strike now.
That is a terrible mock but it is possible. That being said it seems like Mac Jones/Kyle Trask are out of the 1st round and would be way better value than Fields at 2nd overall.
I like Lance, personally. I wasn't sure at first, but he's a Mahomes/Watson/Wilson/Allen type of QB, and that seems to be what's working best these days. I'd grab him with the Seahawks pick.
Just saw another one, from pff, where Lance is #9. I am not saying they are accurate, but Lance is a huge wild card, high risk, high reward type of guy, where a team in top 10 can easily take a risk on due to talent alone and some College success, however weak the competition was. Heck, Wentz went #2 overall coming from the same school (granted in not very rich QB draft), because he is a gifted athlete with great size, and Lance is even more athletic, younger, and did better than him in the same College.
As far as value, sure taking an unathletic good Colleges QB in the second round is a decent choice, but chances you would have had an elite FQB, which I feel is main priority now, are also a lot smaller.
I agree with you. I believe that if we don't take Fields at #2 he won't get past Miami. I'm not sure that Douglas thinks he needs a QB right now, or if he does, that he thinks Fields is the one he wants, but if it were me, that's who I would take at #2.
The Pats drafted the best QB of all time in the 6th round, that happens about once every 500 years. The odds of a QB not drafted in the first round succeeding long term are extremely slim. It's slim even if you choose a QB in the first round, but it's much a much higher chance of success than ones taken after it.
Quite possibly it is semantics as you seemed to think I was advocating ground and pound too. You did say something like the old AFL though I think, and have made noises about the KC offense too, which is about as carefree as a modern team could be realistically. My problem is that I think the Jets might be waiting forever to be successful like that. It not only requires a genuine HoF level QB, but one with otherworldly talent. Mahomes, Favre and Namath and even JWN compromised to win. It's a really rare breed and I'm not sure without that you can pull it off. It would be a more enjoyable fail though for sure, though I suspect very frustrating after a year or two. Somewhere near to what the Seahawks had in their runs would be something I'm happy with.
If he doesn't, I don't know if he is much better than McCarnigan, so I have to believe that he must. At least so far listening to both him and Johnson that's the feeling I got.
One thing I think is worth remembering is that before the start of this year, Trevor was clear #1, Fields close 2nd, and Lance was not far behind Fields as #3. All three guys were ranked very high overall. Lance has been out of site out of mind. I think now that there will be pro days, workouts, combines, interviews, Lance will come back very strong as possibly a top 10 guy. If we are hoping to trade up to get him from #23, not saying it is impossible, but it might be very hard and VERY risky. It may be possible to trade back a few spots from #2, get some assets, and still get Lance, but even that is somewhat of a gamble. Perhaps we could go back to #5 spot, then he will be there.
But then the question is, who do you like more straight up: Lance or Fields? Fields just feels like a much safer bet, so I would just pull the trigger as well, but if JD is sold on Lance, I could see trading back a few spots. I do not see a scenario where we do not take Fields and gamble that we can move up and get Lance. And if we prefer Fields, the only spot to take him is #2.
Keep in mind if Wilson's character problems have any substance he could take a big drop moving Lance possibly into the top 6.
Trade Darnold AND trade back.
That was not the point. The point was having a great system and supporting cast and just plug in a QB and make it work.
I have seen way more success stories of players coming coming in a good system than drafting a QB with a shit supporting cast and expecting miracles.
Look at all the past 1st overall QB: Goff, Winston, Newton, Stafford, Russell, Smith, Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Palmer, Couch. The teams expected them to be their cornerstone and win them SB.
I don't see many definite Hall Of Famers or SB winners
Meanwhile players that were developed and 'plug in' in a good system seem more of success like Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes. That's why I don't get the all gloom and doom of having to draft a QB at 2nd overall. I want us to surround the offense with the best talent possible and that would help our team and franchise QB way more than drafting a QB and 'build' around him.
If next year we can have a top 5 offensive line and 5 running game I would consider that a huge success and huge improvement. More so than drafting a Justin Fields and see him run for his life and become a dissapointment when he is not a pro bowler by year 3.
I don't think character problems will factor into it, but his injury might and if he measures unfavorably at the combine. However, is it really a crazy scenario that Lance does well in pre draft and restores his last year's status as one of the top guys and goes ahead of Zach in top 5?
I don't know how you can make this statement (bold). Maccagnan was one of, if not the worst, GMs this team has ever had. DOuglas has had one draft to construct a team based on his blueprint and while it wasn't the greatest draft in history, it was pretty damn good - better than any Macc produced and it's not close.
I get being frustrated if they fail to invest in a potential FQB, but based on JD's deep experience with quality organizations, and even his experience as a former player (college OL), I have faith that he has a sound plan for making the Jets a sustainable winner.
I feel that taking a potential FQB when you have a chance to do it without having to use assets to trade up you do it, but I can see your POV and also believe that that's the way Douglas will go.
That's exactly why I am almost certain we will be walking away with a top prospect QB from this draft.
Yes, I think it is semantics. Even in the old AFL, the Jets still had Matt Snell and Emerson Boozer and they got their carries and yards. The Kenny O'Brien Jets had Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector and they too got their carries and yards. There was balance.
KC threw the ball a lot this year, but I believe all of their top RBs were injured at one time or had opted out due to Covid. Edwards-Helaire is a great receiver out of the backfield, so it makes sense that he would get some receptions as well as carries. He had 181 rushes for 803 yards, so it's not like they never ran the ball.
It is very hard, if not impossible to pull off. That's why I'm so determined that we have to make getting the QB the #1 priority. We have to keep trying until we get it right and then build around him. I think that it's possible that there could be as many as 4 elite FQBs that come out of the 2021 draft: Lawrence, Fields, Wilson and Lance. They don't even necessarily have to be HOF QBs, but could be. Lawrence is not an option at this point, but the other 3 are still in play. It's up to JD to figure it out along with our new HC and the Scouting Dept. and then take the right one. We HAVE to take a QB this year. We should not and cannot put it off. With a new HC, and moving into the rebuild, this is the right time and it's a good year for QBs, whereas next year doesn't appear to be a good year for QBs.
I’m on this page. Trade back and land Davonta Smith or Jamar Chase or Kyle Pitts. Keep putting playmakers in place then drop the FQB in