Could Tebow become the next Moose?

Discussion in 'Tebowmania' started by Jets31, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. SF MoneyBags

    SF MoneyBags Member

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    Come to think of it, do we know that Romeo Crennel didn't have a Kyle Orton tattoo or that Chan Gailey didn't have a Ryan Fitzpatrick tat? That must be it, all of Timmy's issues are caused by a coach's tattoo preference. There is no possible way Tim didn't start because he practiced like he played agains the Bills, Chiefs, Patriots, Panthers 3rd stringers. lol! Rex did in fact bench Mark; that action alone indicates Rex was willing to try something else. If Tim had earned the trust of the coaches and staff with his practice performance, there was no reason not to start him. Rex would have locked up a head coaching position in this leage for years if he was able to start Tim Tebow and get any kind of success.
     
  2. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    No one is disputing that. The point is that Tebow is far worse.
     
  3. CowboysFan

    CowboysFan Banned

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    what is the measurement we are using to define worse?

    Statistically Sanchez is worse and even though statistics have been used for a century in sports to help compare players, I am sure it will be irrelevant since it does not fit your narrative. So I'll save you a reply and tell you I don't agree that Tebow is worse than Sanchez just because you say so.

    Sanchez is the worse QB on the Jets roster.

    Garard Career QB rating 85.3

    McElroy Career QB rating 79.3 (tiny sample size)

    Tebow Career QB rating 75.3

    Sanchez Career QB rating 71.7
     
  4. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    Too many variables to compare those head to head to compare apples to apples and say one QB is better than the other on some stat.

    Works in fantasy leagues. Not so much in the real NFL. Give Tebow similar tools to work with like Sanchez dealt with all year, I'm guessing he ends up doing quite poorly too. Tebow's best saving grace has nothing to do with his QB rating anyway, because he is a far better runner than he is a passer.

    Othewise, his sample size is also quite small due to reluctance to let him pass. What saved him were those 4th quarters when teams played the bend but not break philosophy. First 3 quarters of the game, his rating was down in the 40s or 50s with completion percentage usually around 30-40%. Check out that Detroit game and Miami game. After 3 quarters, BOTH games had him in the mid to low 40s at QBR. Miami slacked off and he was able to help engineer a couple drives to boost that up. Detroit saved him too when they had their second an third stringers out there for the 4th quarter, and suddenly Tebow was able to complete several in a row to get his numbers back to around 70 something QBR and up to the high 40s in completion percentage.

    This is why I think taking some stat sheet where stats are completely reliant on a whole team to get is just stupid to use to determine which is better. If I were running a fantasy league, it would be different. All they care about is numbers.
     
  5. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    It's amazing how you continue to ignore the stone cold facts but I guess that's what makes you a tebot. If Tebow was even close to as good as Sanchez he surely would have played qb last year. Instead he was passed on the depth chart by the great Greg McElroy.

    Spare me the lame teboner conspiracy theories too.

    Sanchez blows, tebow couldn't challenge his spot on Sanchez's worst day or season. Tebow is THAT bad.
     
  6. SF MoneyBags

    SF MoneyBags Member

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    Demariyus Thomas, Eric Decker, Ryan Clady and Willis McGahee may not be immortals but they were a lot better than what Sanchez has had recently. Tim's low QB rating with some offensive weapons is further proof that the guy is a disaster in the NFL. Being benched is the best thing that ever happened to Tebow in terms of career stats. He is so lucky he did not have to face the Bills or Patriots twice this year; they made him look like a DII scrub. Tim also "competed" head to head with the Jets QBs and came out a backup. Any guy that has lost QB competitions to Kyle Orton, Mark Sanchez and Greg McElroy is the worst player on any NFL roster.
     
  7. SF MoneyBags

    SF MoneyBags Member

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    While we are offering statistical comparisons, it is also important to note that Tim Tebow scored the exact same amount of points as David Garrard last year and less than first ballot HOFer Greg McElroy. Stats are neat huh!
     
  8. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    You're making the assumption that the better player always gets to play. There are obviously other factors involved.

    To say Tebow isn't even close to as good as Sanchez is silly when you look at their career statistics or just watch them play. Tebow is a much better runner, produces more yardage and is more careful with the football. Sanchez can throw the ball better and can run a conventional offense under center.

    We all know you hate Tebow, but realistically Tebow was hurt in the middle of the year and it probably made more sense for the Jets to look at McElroy than Tebow later in the year. Hell after the Arizona game I wanted to see more McElroy to see if he could actually be a NFL caliber QB.

    I do think Tebow would have been a better option at QB last season, especially once Holmes and Keller went down. We should have just really pounded the ball and run some kind of run-option to cut down on the turnovers.

    I don't think Tebow will be out of the NFL unless he refuses to be a backup. He has too much talent running the ball, and will be too tempting for someone to fix, plus the read-option is in vogue.
     
  9. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    *facepalm* You just made that statement to a guy, as well as 2 others who JUST NOW explained why going to the stat card isn't a winning argument.

    ...and watching them play? Yeah, Sanchez looked terrible. But I am assuming you didn't see Tebow much other than the highlights? Trust me. It was a hell of a lot of incompletes. A hell of a lot of 3rd and 8s. a LOT of punting. His shortcomings were pretty glaring until the other teams defenses were finally lulled to sleep. That will work if the defense is holding teams to around 10 points, but it ain't gonna consistently win you a bowl of snot against any team that matters. Having seen Tebow in action a lot, I can tell ya it CAN get worse. Denver's overall offensive production went DOWN from when Orton was there. That is even with the #1 rushing game. They finished around 25th overall, because the passing game was THAT bad. Only won most of the games because the guys on the other side of the ball started hitting their stride in the new system.

    So if you are thinking the Jets are going nowhere with Sanchez, and thinking that putting in Tebow is harmless, well, knock yourselves out then. but don't say I didn't warn ya.
     
  10. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    Ok, well then we'll just go off your opinion, because your opinion is a special snowflake and more important than statistical fact.

    I'll take incompletes over interceptions any day.

    I'll take punting over interceptions any day.

    It's pointless now, 2012 would have been the year to start him. In 2013 the Jets are better off using the roster spot on a QB that can run the WCO well and shipping Tebow off or just cutting him.
     
  11. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    But those stats are TEAM stats. It is just stupid to take stat sheets, compare them head to head between just two guys when each of them had 10 other guys around them, and act like it is unequivical proof that one is better than the other.

    You don't think having better receivers helps those numbers a bit? If not, then you are an idiot. If all it took was a quick peek at a stat sheet to determine who was better, then a goddamn monkey could evaluate talent. Because Orton was on pace to hit 5000 yards when he got pulled in 2010. Did that make him better than, say, Joe Flacco or one of those that only got 4000 yards? Of course not. Once way to compare I guess, but not an apples to apples comparison, which is why I don't take much stock in it.

    Watching Tebow, I see a guy who can't read defenses and can't hit the broad side of a barn. Those have been the knocks on him since he came into the league. Looks cute running, but inevitably end up punting again after three to five plays. Toward the end of hte season, he had 4 losses in 5 games. THAT is tells me he sucks. Not some silly stat sheet comparison. Besides, when the TEAM is one of the worst productive offenses, you gotta look at why. Even with less turnovers, they were among the worst in production and points. Why? Because the QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and defenses keyed in on that while limiting his running.

    If your opinion is that you have seen Tebow punt all day, and think that is better than anything Sanchez does, then that is fine. You might even be right, though I see it more as a choice between shooting self or hanging self. Both suck ass and the Jets should find someone else.

    I know you are sick to death of Sanchez, I get it. We had Kyle Orton fatigue a couple years ago and were in the same exact position you guys are in today. But Tim Tebow? He's not the answer and never will be. The evidence is clear around the league when nobody wants him. You don't think those people have had guys evaluating him day in and day out?


    As would I. I guess those stats are all that matters. :rolleyes: However, it doesnt' do much good if the offense you are running goes three and out 7 times in a row. (As they did 3 or 4 times with Tebow.) If I were a defensive coordinator and I was told I would shut an offense down all day and hold teams to 13-16 points, but probably not get many interceptions... I'd probably take it.

    Plus, Tebow DID have a tendency to fumble the ball. Threw a couple of pick sixes as well, so it isn't as if he NEVER threw any. Those numbers would have been higher had he thrown as much as anyone else did. Probably would have gotten more pass attempts had he stayed on the field more than just a couple minutes at a time. I'm sure the defense would have appreciated more than a couple minute break after getting off the field.

    A couple of interceptions isn't the end of the world of you can rack points up. Tebow really couldn't.

    Interceptions are not good, but neither is running a NO RISK NO REWARD offense. All you are doing is kicking the ball down field all day and hoping your defense can match.

    Agreed. But it is looking like the Jets are gonna stretch that drama further.
     
    #51 Concerned_Citizen, Mar 19, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  12. CowboysFan

    CowboysFan Banned

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    No if Tebow was close to Sanchez he would not have played because of Sanchez's contract, tebow would have had to have been much, much better .

    When tebow threw a pass against Houston that went 40 yards and hit the receiver in the mask why was he never again allowed to try that? you have to admit that Sporano's use of tebow was just plain bizarre.

    I am not talking conspiracy but I am talking massive incompetence. Sporano was the big disaster. he set Sanchez back and quite possibly finished his career off, he probably finished tebow's career, got Tannebaum fired...it was like hurricane sandy hitting the jet's facility. a Hurricane of sheer incompetence. Its a New York Jets trademark.

    I don't buy that Tebow got a clean shot at helping the Jets. It wasn't a conspiracy , just incompetence and starting and finishing with that idiot Sporano.

    You never know, maybe the jets FO agrees with me and will give him a clean last shot this year. Not at starting but helping the Jets the way Rex envisioned it (and Tannembaum of course) but I doubt it, I am sure he will be cut late , thus giving him even less hope of catching on with anyone else...again not conspiracy just incompetence. It's a New York jets trademark .
     
    #52 CowboysFan, Mar 19, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  13. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    Rex has an ego the size of New York. You really think Sporano called the shots, like whether Tebow would get a start or not without him signing off on it.

    It just baffles me when people suggest the Jets "might have seen the light" and are going to actually consider giving Tebow a shot to be the starter. One look in practice during camp, they'll be immediately looking at Garrard or Sanchez again. That's been Tebow's MO from the beginning. Can't beat shitty QBs out in competition and just wait and hope he will end up somehow getting the job by default when the shitty QB ahead of them inevitably shits the bed.

    See? Wasn't Tebow's fault. It was Sanchez's contract.

    Although that doesn't explain why they kept skipping over Tebow when Sanchez was finally getting pulled. I get the injury the first time around, but the second looked to me like their minds were already made up on Tebow and wanted to look at McElroy. then they went back to Sanchez again when none of it mattered anyway. But feel free to keep dreaming that Rex might give him an equal shot at starting this year.
     
    #53 Concerned_Citizen, Mar 19, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  14. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    I actually think Orton is pretty good, and would easily start in a place like Arizona and be successful. I don't think Flacco has ever broken 4000 yards.

     
  15. SF MoneyBags

    SF MoneyBags Member

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    With Tebow it appears not to be a question about whether he is willing to be a back up. His fans simply won't stand for it. They will almost immediately start passive/aggressive discussions about how and when Tebow could "hypothetically" start. His fans may soften their stance and say he should be a backup for the time being but that the keys to his success are game reps with starters (those two ideas are absolutely mutually exclusive.) This leads to media members asking about Tebow's status after games he didn't play in. That pisses off coaches and players; especially after they have seen the guy throw shitty pass after shitty pass in practice. They won't be allowed to share any true feelings for fear of being called jealous haters. Think about how incredibly unappetizing that is for a guy with a 9-7 record after three years...
     
  16. SF MoneyBags

    SF MoneyBags Member

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    There are plenty of sub-50% passers capable of playing 4-5 solid minutes each week. Why waste any more time with a "project" who appears to be past his window of development and improvement?
     
  17. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    I've pointed that out many times, especially to those who love to point out the 1-4 record before Tebow started, or what Orton's record was the years before when the defense was giving up an average of close to 30 points per game.

    But the Broncos did go 1-4 at the end, and statistically, the Bronco offense had its worse stretch of the season. That tells me teams got better at running that containment package.

    You point at 2 of the losses to the Patriots, but they got blown out against the Bills where Tebow threw a pick six and had a fumble six. Then they went into the next game with the playoffs still in doubt and lost it to... Kyle Orton and the Kansas City Chiefs 7 to 3.

    Pittsburgh over committed to it and that sprung D.Thomas a few times. He was getting a step on them much of the day. They never bothered adjusting to it either as that safety playing in Ryan Clark's spot (out because mile high issues with sickle cell) kept getting out of position leaving the corner alone on an island with D. Thomas. Bad news.

    ...and the Jets shut him down all day. They had 3 offensive points leading up to that last drive, ended up scoring only 10. Probably gonna lose a lot more games than you win with that.

    Neither are gonna get you anywhere. You can put gold spray paint on a turd, but it is still a turd.

    Heh, not too long ago, I thought Drew Brees was gonna be available. ....and besides, you guys had a 900 year old Favre a few years back. :p *Yoda impression* "when 900 years old, you reach, look as good, you will not... hmmmm?"

    Kind of unsure about his contract. Most say he only gets a good amount if he takes 60% or more of the snaps. That was the way it was in Denver, at least early on. Not much Danger there as a backup.

    I'd only feel good about my chances if I knew I had a defense that could hold teams to almost mistake free all day. Even during the Broncos run, we knew the defense was doing the heavy lifting, but worried about the day they came against an actual offense. Not a Hanie led Bears team. Not a depleted Chargers. Not the Powerhouse Dolphins. Sanchez and the Jets. Orton and the Chiefs... They did alright against an injury depleted Steelers, but just couldn't hang with the Patriots and everyone knew it. So did the Broncos, who seemed to give up before kickoff. Champ Bailey commented on that too.

    Where was all the inspiration from Timmy Try Hard?


    Well, he sure as shit ain't gonna give Tebow an equal shot at starting. One look in practice, he'll be taking snaps from the third stringers. Tebow needs to quit making speeches and appearances and get cranking on those mechanics, cuz the sun is setting on his career already.
     
  18. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    A lot of QB positions are getting closed up. Looks like the Titans have signed Fitzpatrick and released Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck, if he still plans on playing, will find a job before Tebow will.

    The few slots that are left will be filled by a draft pick. If someone wants to deal with growing pains, they draft someone fitting that description. They won't deal with it with a guy who had been in the league 3 years and still struggles with the basics. Especially with a guy who brings with him his own squad of stormtroopers asking teams about their backup.
     
  19. CowboysFan

    CowboysFan Banned

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    I was answering a hypothetical scenario not stating fact genius...CC you are slipping...


    You are just explaining how they lost. You can explain just about every loss in the NFL in any game that way. You have to realize it right? even games Tebow did well in are impossible for you to acknowledge. Your explanation literally amounts to "these are the mistakes they made" "this is why they loss" give it a rest man.

    You are 1000 times worse and more obsessed than any Tebow fan could ever be.
     
    #59 CowboysFan, Mar 19, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  20. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    How many times have I told you the Pittsburgh game was probably his best? I'm not saying he didn't do well, I just don't get why some of you act as if Tebow won the damn game all by himself.
     

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