ok, I am fine with that. 4 years of consistently losing- 17-43. Yes, 2021 was first year of a complete rebuild which they tried to revamp the offense which was one of the worst in scoring in 2020. We will completely overlook the 2020 roster/draft- Gase fault never Joe D 2021 draft to revamp the offense. Zach Wilson-Whiff, Elijah Moore- Whiff, Michael Carter- Whiff. 2021 team should have been more competitive than they were in 2020 which was a team Joe D intentionally constructed to tank. Finished 4-13. The Jets roster he inherited was so bad! He had a rookie QB! The QB needs more weapons! Joe D the savior save us! OK lets go to the second year of rebuild. 2022 Season-Lets improve the offense - Garrett & Breece- All hail Joe Douglas the savior! Team finishes 7-10, injuries, injuries, injuries. The theme of the season. 2022 we were in bottom of the league in scoring-but that is because of the injuries. Always the injuries never Joe D roster construction. 2023- Lets fix the offense Took a gamble- trades for Aaron Rodgers(Coming off a thumb injury I believe) Obviously we all know AR is better then ZW. Rodgers will fix everything with some good free agent signings (Lazard, Hardman, Cook) Uzomah will be worth the $ now- lets draft Will Mcdonald to beef up the pass rush. 4-6, trending in the wrong direction. INJURIES, INJURIES, INJURIES. Joe D can't be blamed for the injuries he is the savior. We'll see how the team ends up, I hope I am wrong and Boyle can lead a miraculous comeback to the playoffs. You will get your way, since Woody won't fire either Saleh or JD. Next year, if the team has injuries again, and Rodgers gets hurt in week 4, I think we should just sign Joe D to a 6 year extension? Theres always an excuse for JD-since every actual measurement of success in the NFL is not in his favor.
nobody said he's a savoir. he's been a good GM that took over a team with pretty much no talent or cap space from the previous GM and a lame duck head coach and in 4 off-seasons turned them into a SB favorite. sure he's made some mistakes but only looking at mistakes without anything else and only looking at record when coaching, injuries, and resources to flip a team have an effect on that is disingenuous.
I don't think the evidence shows hes a "good GM". He was a good assistant GM in Philly and seems like he would still be, but he fails as the ultimate decsion maker. I think one of the most salient examples is selecting Mcdonald over Jaxon. I can see an assistant GM recommending McDonald and then the "good GM" saying I see your point but we're going with Jaxon.
every GM even the bets ones have selected someone over someone else that they shouldn't have. jon lynch needed a QB and took at DT (thomas) over taking a QB in a class that had mahomes and watson (and watson was a great QB until he turned out to be a shithead) You can't take 1 decision you don't agree with (which over time may be the correct one) to say someone is bad. He drafted sauce as a luxury 4th overall. we could have taken evan neal as a "need" at OT. neal has been so awful he's a meme and jawing with fans. sauce is a top 3 CB in the NFL. He drafted GW 10th overall, he traded up for breece, he traded up for AVT. he's found gems in the late rounds and UDFA and waivers like quincy, JFM, Huff, MC2, even echols. in hindsight JSN is the 3rd WR with 2 studs ahead of him. no idea how he'd do as a main WR currently. Nacua is a 5th rounder and dell is a 3rd and i'd argue both are better then any of the 1sts. addison is better then JSN too. but hindsight is easy. you can be good at your job but weighed down by the people around you. People wanted ulbrich fired, now they love him. people wanted MLF fired, now they'd rather have him back over hackett. making heads roll over and over out of anger is how you miss the playoffs for 13 years in a row. IDK why fans are content to make the same mistakes that cause the outcome that pissed them off in the 1st place. We need stability in the FO. Hackett is bad, injuries are bad luck, I love saleh as a person and DC but not sold on him as a HC yet. ulbrich is a good DC. keep the good don't let them go just to start over
He gets the benefit of the doubt with this fan base because the previous (2) GMs were historically bad. A SB favorite? More like a SB dark horse- they were +270 to win the division(I hold a ticket) Thats NY Media Hype + Jets winning the offseason for you.... What are we supposed to look at? I am happy to highlight his hits(DJ Reed for one) No matter the hits, the results have been the same It's not disingenuous, it's a fact You want to look at all the injuries & coaching(JD hired Saleh) to excuse his record. How are you satisfied with his performance? What has the team shown that gives you confidence in the future? This also isn't a small sample size. Almost four full years of results. We're going in circles at this point, but I would love to be wrong. I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong since I continue to give this franchise $ for season tickets.
"since I continue to give this franchise $ for season tickets.[/QUOTE]" My goodness...why would give the Johnsons a dime?
yes the past 2 were way worse. but i mean you can go even further back then that. more like the past 5 or 6 at least. as far as SB favorites. vegas had us 6th best chance going into the season. they are usually pretty good thats why they make so much money. I don't think we were even that high in 2010 or 1999 and I think those were our 2 highest "on paper teams" since this year. the results have been bad, but blaming 1 person doesn't do anything. I'm not going to blame breece for the offensive failures just because he's part of the offense. blaming it all soley on JD negates any affect the coaches, scheme, injuries, etc all have on the result. hiring saleh could turn out to be a bad move. but it's been this regime for now year 3 and the D went from 1st to pretty damn elite. the offense hasn't been fixed obviously but we don't know what it would had looked like if rodgers didn't go down. If rodgers was healthy and say we are sitting at 6-4 and the offense was middle of the pack, would people be screaming for him to be fired?
The key decision factor is that McD has contributed nothing to this season--not his fault, I like his prospects--while JSN would have and given us a slot guy for the future which we now are going to have to draft anyway. My point being in the big picture, you could really like McD but it was the wrong choice and a quality GM would not have made it. I will also add Becton over Wirfs--the deciding factor being that one comes from a conference that has a rich history of offensive line success all else being equal. JD whiffed on all the troubles Bectons size and motivation would bring. I can see going for the homerun with him, but thats what an assistant recommends. The chief is wiser. Your cherry picked examples can be counterbalanced by all the lousy picks and FA's hes responsible for. My argument doesnt rely on cherry picking but rather, both players have things going for them but the good GM discerns the team needs.
I mean I wouldn't say nothing. it's little but not nothing. in the past 3 weeks he jumped the o-line to block a game winning FG (would have blocked it if the kicker didn't shank it) has .5 sacks, a FF, and a TFL. plus 2 QB hits. It's not vernon gholston where he couldn't even get a sack his entire career. he's looked pretty good and showcased his spin move on a few occasions. I could make the case JSN would be doing nothing on this offense. GW and breece can barely do anything. not his fault but with the o-line, lack of a run game, constant 3 and outs, bad QB play, bad play calling how much would JSN be doing right now? I doubt he tips the scale for us in any of these games. not that he's a bad player by any means. he looks pretty solid I just don't think any 1 player outside of an elite QB would really help this offense be decent in it's current state. I'm not cherry picking. he's had some bad moves. he's far from perfect. i'm looking at the current roster as a whole and what it was when he took over and it's night and day better overall.
No, but this season has always been playoffs or bust in my eyes(Even though Woody has never put the pressure of a playoff mandate on the staff) We have the longest playoff drought in professional sports. It does not take this long to rebuild- period. Injuries in the NFL happen, we could have easily been 6-4 with Rodgers. But this is the NFL- adversity hits every NFL Team, you need to adapt. The Jets never adapt, and Joe Douglas the GM who constructs the roster and is responsible for depth-hasn't been able to adapt to any adversity in his time here. Its Plan A or the season is over.
Our o managed to get worse even tho we were toward the bottom...4 yrs.... to get where we are is abysmal. Fucking Boyle???
All this back and forth, but what it boils down to is this: You can't be considered a good GM when the offense has consistently been bottom 5 in the league during your tenure. You just can't. Offense is too important and ours has been too bad.
the problem is what people think is the solution (clean house and start over) winds up becoming the issue (constant rebuilding) and it's a never ending cycle for the jets. clean house, rebuild, clean house again, rebuild clean house again Rebuild etc etc. thats why we've been bad for so long. we never see a rebuild fully through and worse off tend to hire worse and worse each time. each rebuild brings a new regime, new scheme, and needs new players. we can't ever acquire talent over time and build around them. We also whiffed on our last 3 chances of landing a FQB which doesn't help as that is one if the big keys to making it work. sacnhez, darnold, and zach have all failed at that. but still at some point you have to say we have good people, let them do their job and be patient. otherwise you continue the cycle over and over. I'm not sold on saleh as a HC personally. Hackett is bad and needs to go as soon as aaron does. Ulbrich is a guy worth keeping around. we have young talent to build around (Breece, GW, AVT, Tippman, Q, Qunicy, Sauce, MC2, and some more) I think JD has been our best GM in quite some time (low bar and all) I think we need to let him work and do his job and have a little patience.
and he should take some blame for that for sure. but he can't control the QB getting hurt (who was an elite QB he traded for), losing like 5 lineman in 1 season, and your WR2 retiring a week before the season started. Also weird how nobody gives him credit for taking a bottom ranked defense and making them elite.
No. We're bad because we consistently hire bad GMs and coaches. Not because we don't give them enough time. https://x.com/JCaporoso/status/1727011027961991452?s=20 Douglas will be the 4th longest tenured GM in Jets history after this season and has the 3rd worst winning percentage as GM in franchise history. He could've done a lot after the QB got hurt. Instead, he did nothing. The OL was also weak even before the injuries, and as others have pointed out many times, we had numerous OL with lengthy injury histories. It didn't exactly take an orthopedic surgeon to surmise they may get hurt again. We do give him credit for the defense, but it literally doesn't matter when the offense has been so bad. You cannot win without a good offense.
Only in Jets-land do we expect rebuilds to take 4+ years. It's preposterous. Meanwhile the entire league is designed to encourage quick rebuilds and it only takes other teams 2-3 years to do it assuming they hire a good coach and/or GM.
I get the argument because we have hired trash in the past, and honestly I have no clue if we have the right coach, I can't defend hackett at all, but I do like ulbrich. I think JD has been a good GM. I think they all get another chance next year but after that I do think JD is worth keeping and ulbrich and then just replacing the HC and offensive staff. We have a lot more talent then he started with, which is the sign of a good GM. We have flexibility on offense for a new scheme. only need to keep GW and breece and they can fit any modern day scheme in the NFL, everything else can be overhauled for a new offense. I know people say that but not really. dobbs wasn't available at that point. the offense wasn't good but it wasn't anemic. zach looked decent enough weeks 4-5. we all expected with rodgers after that 1st 6 weeks to be 3-3 at best but likely 2-4 became things on paper got easier. we came out 3-3. went 4-3 despite a shit offense. now we dropped 3 in a row and changes are being made. we added simian when we were 1-2. I guess we liked him best? again dobbs wasn't available. wentz and flacco are the only 2 other options at that time. o-line was an issue for sure that should have been addressed better but every team has to have a hole somewhere due to the cap
The Jets gave Joe Douglas a 6 year deal. I am sure this is what he wanted when he began talks with the Jets so he can have time to build the Jets roster which ever way he wanted. This June will be year (5) Not sure how much more patient you want the organization and its fans to be? I remember watching One Jets Drive in 2020, and Joe Douglas spoke about how the team was going to surprise people that year- they are young and hungry. They won 2 games haha You are in the biggest media market in the world. You can suck for 1-2 years and sell us all on a rebuild. Fine, but to have no positive actual result during your entire tenure, how can it not be your fault as GM. To just throw away (3) seasons 2020/2021/2022, because the roster needs a major turnover- is just a loser mentality. Enough of the excuses. Unfortunately, my guess is they see this contract to its end(Even though I disagree)
If the Jets finish 7-10 or 8-9, you can kind of empathize with the Rodgers injury excuse. I’m not really buying it with all the other injuries though because other teams deal with that shit too. But we’re trending towards this being a disastrous season yet again. And forget even this season, the long term prognosis is not good at all.
there are things that are his fault, but again looking at the big picture and understanding no roster in the NFL can be perfect we have a lot more talent then we had when we started. same can't be said of any of the other GMs we've had. even looking at teams like pitt and cle they have less talent and are winning. the chiefs went from a top WR room to one of the worst. their WRs have easily costed them 2 games this year if not more and hurt mahomes MVP chances. but the flip side of it is they built a Defense so they don't have to win 30+ point shootouts every game. I don't see any issue with the D as it stands (I don't think anyone here does) but obviously the offense needs work still, but it's hard to judge when the QB goes down. still there is a reason tomlin is one of the best in the business. there isn't a logical reason on how the steelers are 6-4. but even at that a shit roster can't be instantly fixed. pats have the best coach all time and are last in the AFC
