Coach makes case for Jets taking Zach Wilson in 2021 NFL Draft

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Footballgod214, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    Count me in
     
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  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this! What a great podcast! I really like Jenkins' analysis, and this didn't disappoint. He's a guy who played the position, runs a QB school, and has seen thousands of hours of football. I'm not saying he's perfect or that I agree with absolutely everything he says, but I feel confident in saying that there is no one on this board that knows more about QBs than him.

    So when he rates Wilson #1 over Lawrence, I think you have to listen to that. And saying that if he were the Jets he'd lean towards sticking with Darnold because he thinks Sam can run the SF offense really well. Now on this last point, while I agree that Darnold just may be able to do really well under Saleh/LaFleur, I don't think his potential is greater than Wilson, and the Jets aren't likely to be in a position to pick #2 any time soon, so with that in mind, I personally would use the #2 on Wilson and move on from Darnold. That said, Jenkins also is very high on Mac Jones who I also like, but who I didn't trust my own eyes based on the limited film I've seen of him and the fact that he's surrounded by great talent and coaching, so in this case, listening to a guy with Jenkins' experience confirm what I think I've seen is reassuring. So with that in mind, Jenkins suggested trading back and taking Jones and having him and Darnold compete, which I think is also a good idea - it would give the Jets a very good chance at getting their FQB one way or the other, and picking up some additional prime draft capital.

    Anyway, those who are really interested in learning about the QB possibilities this year for the Jets ought to listen to this.
     
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  3. patleahy

    patleahy Well-Known Member

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    If you look at all of these mocks, it is insane how many are predicting that 5 QBs will be drafted in the top 20 selections. Wilson has really shot up the the draft boards...he went from being a mid first rounder to moving right alongside Lawrence and Fields as a top 3-5 pick. Just a few months ago, nobody was even mentioning Mac Jones as a first round QB, and now he is expected to be selected in the top 15-20. There are soooo many teams in this league desperate for hope at the QB position....crazy stuff.
     
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  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    In today's version of the NFL, QB is THE MOST CRITICAL position, which is proven by the frenzy over teams chasing after them. It has really made obsolete the way players used to be ranked for the draft. In one way they ought to have separate draft rankings for QBs and then everyone else. If you need a QB, there really isn't any other position that should be ranked higher than the QBs you're targeting. That doesn't necessarily mean that you MUST take a QB - maybe there's no QBs coming out that you like for the scheme you're planning on using - but you had better do your homework if you decide to pass on a QB for another position (see: Maccagnan, Mike, NY Jets 2017).

    The other aspect of this is that while the QB Position is much more highly valued now, it doesn't necessarily mean that the QBs coming out are any better than they used to be. What this creates is the situation we have where because of the QB Value (QBV) teams feel a lot of pressure to use a higher pick on one, and that in turn leads to a higher risk of overdrafting one.

    As a result of this, teams need to do a much better job than most of them do at correctly evaluating QBs. I think teams greatly undervalue the mental aspects - innate understanding of the game, ability to process quickly, a "winner's mindset", leadership - in favor of the potential promised by a guy's physical traits, especially if he has a big arm. If you listen to that Tim Jenkins podcast, he explains that he and his coaching staff actually rate these traits above arm strength, as long as the arm meets a certain threshold. As an example, one of the chief pluses that scouts had for Darnold was his arm, but maybe they should've looked more closely at his processing speed and accuracy.

    Anyway, there's a lot of pressure on teams to upgrade their QB, but at the same time there's more risk involved because they have to use a really high draft pick - or even trade additional picks - to get one.
     
  5. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Some priceless comments there. "We know why cover 3 was invented, it is to take away post, especially from the slot. I can't tell you how many time Jets dialed slot/post against cover 3." Basically, this shows how incompetent Gase was (which is why some of us wanted him to stay for the tank once the season was effectively over). For that reason he said it was hard to evaluate Sam, the coach made it very difficult on the young guy. He saw flashes and thinks Sam may drastically improve under new coach and become a Matt Ryan type of guy, even better in 49ers offense. He just feels Sam deserves another year with good coaching and good schematics.

    Now, he is suggesting to trade out of #2 to get some value, still get a QB, like Mac Jones lower, and have Sam and Mac together on the team to battle it out. While his QB evaluation skills are excellent, I would question the GM aspect of it. Conceding the point there is a chance Sam may blow up under new coach, I would still draft the best QB I could, which would mean using #2 pick for Zach Wilson. I also don't know how it's going to work with 3 QBs who are 23 year old or younger on the roster and need specialized attention. It is one possibility that needs to be considered. But I feel it would be a giant mistake to pass at QB at #2. I'd rather have Sam and Zach battle it out than putting all eggs in Sam's basket at this point. QB position is too important not to give the best shot to address it now when we have a chance.
     
  6. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Clemson never produced any quality NFL QBs before Watson. He was the FIRST Clemson QB to do it.

    Texas Tech nothing but busts before Mahomes. He was the FIRST Texas Tech QB to do it.

    ..and Tedford QBs were trash in the NFL before Aaron Rodgers. Here's a funny article: "Aaron Rodgers Will Flop Just like Every Other Tedford Product"

    seems like that conclusion/criticism you came to is a flawed one :cool:
     
  7. Frenbar

    Frenbar Well-Known Member

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    With reports out today that we may trade down instead of drafting at 2, I'd just like to comment I am fine with that. I'm not a huge Sam supporter, since so far he has proven nothing except that he's a question mark, but if JD can trade down and get a boatload of picks (much less if he can rape a team that's desperate to move up) and we can stack up a lot of talent I think we will be better off in the long run than reaching or trading too much for a qb.
     
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  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm leaning towards taking Wilson at #2 myself, but I think it depends on how good they think Mac Jones can be. If he's as good as Jenkins thinks he is (and from my limited and amateur's POV I do think he can be good which is why I'm terrified of the Pats taking him), then the option to trade back and take him has appeal. However, it's a gamble because if they trade back another team could pluck him before they get to pick. Of course they could take Jones at #2 if they think he's the real deal and best fit, but from what I've seen of Wilson and what Jenkins (and others) have said about him, I'd take Wilson over Jones.
     
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  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    All reports you hear at this time about Jets plans are absolute BS. The only one that makes sense is the report that Jets want to evaluate QBs on pro day before deciding. And even that can change if someone make a really good offer for Sam. JD will not be leaking critical information like trading out of 2 at this stage. I can easily see the Jets keeping Sam and drafting QB at #2 if no one makes a good offer for him.

    Maybe that should be the plan A. Rookie will need time. For Zach it is a big jump from smaller BYU school to starting in NFL. Even Mahomes waited a year. Starting Sam and having Zach on the bench may actually maximize the chance of having FQB. Sam gets another shot with competent OC, and Zach gets a chance to develop. Worst case is Sam continues to be subpair and we lose what would probably a 3d round pick. But we do increase chance of FQB, so may be worth it.
     
  10. Sorry i really couldnt disagree more

    -1 Year of production during a funky college season w anything but ordinary game atmosphere,practice or preparation

    - Medical concerns involving the shoulder

    - like em or not whispers about his character

    - More of a well rounded/balanced style player than physically superior or w arm talent where its undeniable

    Like who ever you want but i just dont see in any possible way how hes a safe pick or a sure bet
     
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  11. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    If the Jets aren't gauging what they can get in a trade down right now then Douglas isn't doing his job. They need to be evaluating the QBs and other players available at 2 while also finding out what offers they'll get for the pick.

    It's not an either/or situation at this point and probably won't be until the moment they turn in their card, or whatever passes for that over Zoom.
     
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not saying he's a "sure bet", but I do like him the best of all of the QBs, maybe even more than Lawrence. And not to be snarky, but a serious question: haven't you always said to "rely on the tape"? I've seen most, if not all, of Wilson's film and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. Even so two different people can watch the same tape and come to different conclusions. IMO I like what I see.

    As to just one funky season, he's played three, the second one recovering from surgery, and while they don't play the same SOS as OSU, Clemson, Alabama, they did play some decent competition, with the obvious cupcakes like all schools do. The point is that he's thrown almost three times the number of passes as Trey Lance. And speaking of a small sample of games, Lance only played one game in 2020 and he wasn't very impressive in that one.

    As to the "character" reports, they've been debunked. Moreover, his reputation as totally committed to being the best, staying late to study film with the coaches, studying QBs like Rodgers and Mahomes; studying offenses like SF and GB, all these speak to "character" and drive.

    I know none of this will change your mind, but I did want to answer it. In the end, I admit I'm not as convinced as I was about Mahomes and Watson, but part of that then was my belief the Jets absolutely HAD to draft a QB, whereas now I'm not as certain. I'll say this: if Wilson was coming out in 2017, I would put him behind Mahomes and Watson, but those two were rare specimens.

    And just to reiterate, I would also be in favor of trading back a bit and taking Jones and keeping Darnold.

    But, as always, my mind is open.
     
  13. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The character issues haven't been debunked. They've been refuted by people close to him. There's a difference.

    They might be false but they might not be. For the record, I think Rosen had a lot more flags than Wilson does.

    UCLA teammates and coaches on Rosen:

    OL Scott Quessenberry
    OL Kolton Miller
    Offensive Coordinator Jedd Fisch

    TE Caleb Wilson and WR Bryce Treggs

     
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  14. Im not here to argue his tape. I stand by my opinon,i respect yours. Clearly im in the minority which is not uncommon..proof will be in the pudding.

    I just dont understand why we’re ignoring or minimizing risk factors we normally wouldnt.
     
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  15. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    The only character issues I heard was that someone said he was a spoiled brat because he is rich and uncle own Jet Blue. They have been debunked by facts and not just by teammates but also reporters who cover the team for years. These people are not his close friends/teammates. The guy is driving old beat up Mazda 6 around the campus. Had to travel for hours just to get to practice. Bought cheap gas station food to eat as not to be a burden when he stayed with someone. Maybe if he had a hot tub in his dorm, it would be different story, but short of that the facts have absolutely debunked these weak concerns.

     
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  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I mean I said the Rosen flags were much worse. And he's clearly a douchebag and the picture confirms it. NFL teams will have a better handle on his character than we do though. Rosen was still drafted in the top 10 despite all of that though.
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    WOW! What do these have to do with Wilson? With a reach like this they ought to make a DC Comic superhero out of you!

    Believe what you want to believe.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm not ignoring them,I ackonwledged concerns, I just don't weigh them as heavily as you do. I mean what QB has ever NOT had concerns? It's matter of balancing the risk factors against the potential reward.

    And yes, the proof will be in the pudding. I've got nothing invested in how this turns out other than hoping Douglas makes the right decision. I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong, but JD makes the right choice.
     
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  19. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    What a dumb comment. It was showing that teammates come to the defense comments similar to Wilson. Is it that hard for you to understand a simple comparison?
     
  20. Kotite's Revenge

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    The enormously big red flag with Wilson is the pseudo Captain status. If you are a 3 year starting college QB and not an automatic slam dunk Captain selection that is beyond a problem and not debatable. Especially for an organization that covets real Captains.
     

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