I just wanna know why if Mayfield is such a flawless prospect he isn’t the unquestioned first overall pick & being crowned the Next Andrew Luck & why he wasn’t considered a top 5 pick like Rosen,Darnold & Yes ALLEN have been for over 2 years. I’m sure it’s someone else’s fault other than Bakers.Or maybe we all just haven’t looked at his stats closely enough
I've asked this question a million times. It's generally accepted the to 3 are Darnold, Rosen & allen, then Mayfield. But I'm supposed to believe a guy on a message board who rated Mayfield at the top of every desirable QB category. When people tell me he goes through his professions better, has the best short ball velocity, whatever that means, fits the ball into the tightest windows, I wonder if other than the clip of him grabbing his balls and screaming fuck you if they've seen him. There's issues with all. Hate to break it to these guys, his height is an issue, one that can't go away (though someone told me he could grow another inch, DUH), the offense he comes out of is an issue (I've been told that the NFL runs the same offense), his footwork behind center is clunky, he's thrown to wide open WRs all the time. Somehow this trumps a sub 60 comp % or being a millinial in Rosens case. Who is a concussion worry for having the same number of concussions as Mayfield, whos concussions aren't a concern.
Not the evidence I was hoping for, but I'll bite. I definitely see it differently. Here is my take: Accuracy: (bumped Mayfield to #1) - Mayfield - Rosen - Lamar A constant knock on Mayfield is that due to his college system, his stats are irrelevant. Combine that with the fact that Rosen has declared himself the most accurate QB in the draft, some people seem to take this as simple fact. There is no metric in the world that will support Rosen's claim, so it comes down to whether Mayfield is capable of being accurate on NFL throws. The answer to this question directly coincides with how you feel about this. Based on everything I've observed, I believe the answer to be yes. An example of this can be seen in this article under "touch and ball placement" where a throw he makes is shown in relation to a Drew Brees play: http://insidethepylon.com/pylon-u/t...s/2018/01/15/baker-mayfield-two-torque-touch/ Arm strength: (bumped Mayfield to #1) - Mayfield - Rosen - Lamar In regards to arm strength, we've had the combine velocity numbers posted: http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/ Also, while Rosen and Jackson are both unfortunately missing from this, Mayfield is compared directly with Allen who is generally universally seen as the strongest armed QB in the draft: I might be completely off on this, but your rankings gave me the impression that you're judging arm strength by style of play, rather than actual arm strength. Here is an example of some beautiful deep passes by Rosen, where I think you are mistaking this for superior arm strength (certainly adds weight to the accuracy argument though!): Adaptability to the NFL (pro style experience - snaps under center, reads pre and post, responsibility at the LOS) (bumped Mayfield to #2) - Rosen - Mayfield - Lamar This was a weird one for me to see your take on. On the one hand, I agree that Rosen is the most "NFL ready" out of all the top guys in this class. He's a traditional QB, he doesn't have significant mechanical issues that need work, he's coming out of a pro style offense and in my opinion will have the shortest ramp up of anyone. That said, for you to rank Jackson over Mayfield just screams Mayfield hate to me. You can show me where I'm wrong here, but wherever Jackson goes the system is going to need to be adapted to him. Mayfield's talents are much more suited a traditional west coast offense and only require a small amount of ramp up, mostly due to his inexperience playing from under center (something Darnold will also have to deal with). Mayfield uses his legs to his advantage, but he's not dependent on his legs to succeed, while Jackson is. If you don't tailor your offense to Lamar Jackson, he will NOT succeed. On top of that, Mayfield has never had the same degree of negative production that Jackson occasionally produced, has proven to be a superior passer of the football, and quite intelligent and adaptable. Chad Pennington's opinion is that Mayfield is the purest passer of the football based on his own time spent around these guys: http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/v...he-Draft/bdf113f0-7b7d-43ec-94f2-3aa8bc84fba1 Even if you could care less what Pennington thinks, I really don't think you'll find many examples, if any that think Jackson is a more "NFL ready" prospect than Mayfield. If you run an offense tailored to his talents, he might succeed sooner than later, but the conditional nature of this combined with the shaky opportunities to land in that right position lends itself to Mayfield going much sooner, this being one reason why. In terms of the system Mayfield is coming out of, he'll be joining the ranks of Russell Wilson (except his senior year), Dak Prescott, Marcus Mariota, and Jared Goff as recent spread QBs. Pocket Presence: (bumped Mayfield to #2) - Rosen - Mayfield - Jackson Again, Rosen is a traditional pocket passer, he is #1 here. I see Rosen as being similar to Eli Manning in that he's a pocket thrower where Mayfield is more like Aaron Rodgers in that some of his greatest achievements occur outside of the structure of the offense. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ll-wilson-brett-favre/?utm_term=.4e3c60fec515 Not to mention, Mayfield has demonstrated clear awareness of what is going on around him, and has consistently demonstrated the ability to keep his eyes downfield while in the midst of chaos, and still make an accurate big time throw. This play is one of my favorites from Mayfield, and one of the top plays that has me enamored with him as a prospect: Also concerning Ohio State specifically (only bringing this up because Mayfield doesn't play against "quality" competition, supposedly): https://www.diehards.com/oklahoma/baker-mayfield-pressure-ohio-state-oklahoma It is disingenuous to state that Mayfield is not proven in this regard. Athleticism: (agreed) - Lamar - Mayfield - Rosen There is no question about this. Jackson's entire game is built around his mobility, he needs to be the athlete to be successful. Mayfield does not need to be what Jackson is, but he still uses his mobility to his advantage and that helps compensate for his height. Rosen's athletic requirements are minimal, as far as QBs go.
hes not flawless ... hes lacks ideal height and played in the air raid, which has a spotty record of producing nfl qbs even with those flaws, hes a great prospect ... but keep pretending like scouts arent habitually incorrect about players
freeman was slower, but he was also 15 lbs heavier i dont think allen is far more talented than freeman, but i agree with the bold ... allens floor isnt nearly as low as people make it out to be
Quick comment/question: Starting next Thursday...should we start a final QB draft thread with a poll? I feel like that would be a nice way for us to make our closing arguments and to voice who the Jets should/will take. Just an idea.
Regarding the bold, you don't think so but myself and the NFL does. Hence why Allen is a consideration for the top overall pick while Freeman was a borderline first rounder.
Apparently you have no idea what remotely similar means, those are very similar. It's college QR, a much different system than the one used by the NFL. Even more meaningless than the NFL formula. And again, it's one number, QR, one of the last ways I would rate QBs.
@xxedge72x appreciate the work you put in there. Now I am going to disagree with this, but again I appreciate the work. Not many go through lengths to prove their point. OK your ratings: Accuracy is also defined by the ability to have anticipation and put it only where the receiver can get the ball. Rosen is able to make any throw in the book, back shoulder, any throw where-as you don't see that from Mayfield week in and week out. Rosen can throw on any angle. The last throw specifically, Rosen makes. I have never seen Mayfield make a throw like that. If you can find one show it to me. Rosen can make any throw under any throwing motion and has excellent anticipation. Mayfield is very accurate which is why I put him #2 and it's his strongest asset. However, I see Rosen as a guy that can make any throw and put it where the only the receiver can get it. I saw this a lot more from Rosen in relation to Mayfield. This one made me laugh the most. Lamar absolutely trumps Mayfield in arm strength. He has an effortless release and it will still travel 50+ yards in the air. He can throw into extremely tight windows, something Mayfield has not demonstrated at OU on a regular basis. Once Lamar gets better at his lower body mechanics, I can only image how better his throws down the field will be. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...rm-strength-and-everything-to-know-about-qbs/ No one in their right mind outside of someone who loves Mayfield blindly would rank him #1 in arm strength. No one. This is how you lose credibility ranking Mayfield @ 1. Being an athlete or run QB has nothing to do with this. This is natural arm talent. Arm strength is required when making throws in tight windows and down the field and no QB did that more then Lamar Jackson last year. One of the best throws of the YEAR BTW, here is an article to reject the earlier stats on MPH: https://www.rotoballer.com/lamar-jackson-a-detailed-evaluation/475612?amp=1 Please view these statistics: Lamar ran a pro style offense that included the Lamar run package. He had more responsibility at the LOS then Mayfield and routinely went through his reads in the pocket and stayed patient. Mayfield, no snaps under center so we don't know how well he does with the 3, 5 and 7 step drops. It will take him YEARS to develop this and I said that about Mariota and he still hasnt fully adjusted. If you can't take snaps from under center, read the defense and make the throw, the CS will have to develop packages to off-set that and hope the defenses don't catch on. If they see you under center, they know you are running the ball. Thats when you see the majority in the shotgun and the RPOs. They will have to scheme Mayfield up. This is why Lamar is more pro ready. Also, both QBs will need an offense tailored around their skill-sets so I don't get your point. Mayfield will run plenty of RPOs and spread concepts because thats what he knows. Both of these guys aren't going to make those around them better like a Rosen. Nah bro. Baker Mayfield has happy feet and you see that in the Georgia game, and the Texas game big time. You can google that too, its in a lot of scouting reports. Now, Lamar on the other hand. Very underrated pocket presence: "There is no question about this. Jackson's entire game is built around his mobility, he needs to be the athlete to be successful. Mayfield does not need to be what Jackson is, but he still uses his mobility to his advantage and that helps compensate for his height. Rosen's athletic requirements are minimal, as far as QBs go." WHO CARES!? Its a gift from God dude. Lamar can still make throws on tape that Baker wouldn't make. Lamar is very patient in the pocket and can kill you with his arm. It would be up to Lamar and the coaches to ensure Lamar's game MATURES over time. His rate of improvement and willingness to be a QB tells me he will mature his game over time. Don't make excuses for Baker's height. It's a disadvantage and you can leave it at that. Baker still gets happy feet in the pocket where-as Lamar is much calmer. So at the end of the day, I disagree with your arm strength ranking BIG time and some of the others, but this has been a good debate. BTW lets stop with the labeling, I find it to be a little petty. Just cause I like certain QBs more, and I don't like Mayfield as much doesn't mean oh he's being biased against Mayfield. Its all on tape. The 2 QBs Rosen and Jackson have elite traits. Mayfield has GOOD traits with none being at the elite level.
We might as well change this thread title. Cimini has done a COMPLETE 180 and now thinks Baker is the pick. http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-j...jets-its-possible-and-it-makes-a-lot-of-sense Also, we either tipped our hand or this is a perfectly played smokescreen because every single person I see is calling Baker to the Jets now.
There seems to be a lot of momentum for Baker to the Jets. With news of the 3 hour dinner last night and lots of people tipping him to the Jets. It makes me wonder if it's a smoke screen or if he has been the Jets guy all along. Every year the media acts surprised when some QBs rise and some drop as we get closer to the draft. When in reality its not the players rising or dropping just the media catching up to what scouts thought all along. My guess for this year's media hype boy that might be in for a drop will be Josh Allen. He is eye candy and fits the type of guy the media wants to hype but is lacking in substance. Although Allen is the kind of guy who scouts can fall in love with. Cosell called him "scout catnip." At this point I have no idea which direction the Jets or going. Darnold looks destined to go to the Browns. Leaving Rosen, Mayfield or Allen. Neither would surprise me. Given Mac's history I am not sure we will know until the pick is in. Although the Hackenburg pick seemed commonly known a week or two before the draft so maybe it will leak out. But in Hackenburg the Jets did not have the level of interest from other teams so I am guessing they are are going to play this very close to the vest. My guess is it's either Mayfield or Rosen with probably a greater chance they are leaning towards Mayfield. But it could even be Allen. I can't recall a QB class this in flux in the order this close to the draft. It is quite exciting. Only 15 days until either Baker Mayfield Day Or Josh (Rosen or Allen) day.
TBH, it would make complete sense to me. Mayfield is the one out of the big 4 that’s almost 100% to be available at #3, so trading up to a non-top 2 pick makes sense in that regard. Also, if someone reads your hand and trades up to 2 for Mayfield, well hey then thanks for sliding Rosen or Darnold to us.
I could post like 20 tweets just from this morning It feels like we have our first major front office leak. I guess it took media members a couple years to get sources within the new regime.
Or the smokescreen is working unbelievably well. Either way, ending up with Mayfield is a victory in my book so I’m fine with this being the truth as well.
To trade up to three they had to have been very happy and comfortable with drafting at least three of the QBs. But it is possible they traded up targeting one particular QB whether it's Mayfield, Rosen, or Allen. But all the stories now with the Jets interest in Mayfield and a number of teams with no interest in Rosen makes me wonder what is real and what is smoke. Is Rosen actually dropping? Is Mayfield moving up? Is Allen really being considered in the top 3? These hard questions to answer. What is real here. The media seems even more confused than us.
