He's NOT to small...he plays at at least 280 pounds. That is the perfect size for a 3-4 DE. Plus, he uses a lot of athleticism that allows him to get after the QB some, but it mainly helps him get off of the line quickly to stop the run. He's just what this Jets D-Line needs. Quinton Groves is a 4-3 defensive end...by drafting him, we'd have to teach him a whole new position (not a problem). Chris Long already knows how to play in the 3-4. Groves doesn't play in the 3-4, so we don't know what we can do. I think Groves will slide some -- maybe we can draft both players...that would be incredible.
Ok first, Long plays at around 260, 265, NOT 280. He's listed at 280 because he bulks up for the combine so teams think he's bigger than he really plays, I'm assuming your just getting the 280lbs as a random statistic from some website rather than actually knowing. Second, just about every 3-4 OLB was a DE in a 4-3 in college, hence the word "tweener" it wouldn't be teaching him a new position, Groves , VERY OFTEN drops into coverage as an OLB would (very well might I add) and is a proven pass rusher (most sacks in Auborn history). I love long immensely I think he's gunna be fabulous, but at the same time, I think we should really focus on getting players who don't have size as an issue, we already see how it hurts Vilma... And again, the comment was that Long can play a 3-4 NT, which is utterly ridiculous considering he's around 265 and a 3-4 NT is around 320.
Wow...How do you know what weight Chris Long is playing at? Did you weigh him personally? Of course I've looked it up on a website, how else would I know that? I've seen numerous websites list him in the 280s. Chris Long's size isn't an issue. He gained weight to impress scouts at a combine? Which combine has he "bulked up" for? I don't think he's been to one yet. What...did you look that up on a website, with out actually knowing? It would be teaching him a new position, because he does not play 3-4 linebacker. He plays 4-3 end. Just because he's known as a tweener, doesn't mean you don't have to teach him a whole new role in a defense. 1. Vilma will most likely be gone. 2. "Tweeners" don't always work out - Merriman, Adalius Thomas, Ware, and Suggs are four in today's NFL that have been dominant - no one else really. I consider Jason Taylor a dominant "tweener" also... 3. It's not hard to drop into coverage at Auburn - the SEC isn't really known for it's passing attack. It's more of a run heavy conference. When Groves drops back, he's dropping to spy the QB, not to cover anyone...maybe a tight end or maybe a running back out of the backfield - but never a wideout. 4. Chris Long plays at 280 - UVA wouldn't add 20 pounds onto the guy's bio just to scare people...okay, maybe they would, but I'm sure the NCAA does player's measurements too. 5. I know Q-Groves can get after the QB, if he's standing up or has a hand down...he's a nasty pass rusher, I'm just worried about his coverage abilities, and his ability to keep up with NFL TEs and WRs. I'm all for drafting Quinton Groves, but Chris Long is the better solution. I said earlier, I hope we can get both of them somehow, but don't knock Long because of his size, because that clearly isn't a problem if you watch him play. He's dominant, and worthy of a top 5 pick. Groves should probably be selected in the late teens or early twenties in Round 1.
I already mentioned that Quinten Groves has already numerously dropped back into coverage this year in college, I've been watching him and he does a very good job of it. In this day and age, in the current NFL, the "tweener" has been a hot commodity. There are many, MANY successful 3-4 tweeners in the NFL today, in fact all of them (bit of an exaggeration) are tweeners ...all the OLB's that is. You only listed the most prominant players, but not nearly all the successful ones. For instance: - Kamerion Wimbley has been PHENOMENAL! 11 sacks last year (rookie year) and another 3 this year. - Clark Haggans on the Steelers - tremendous player, one could consider him the core of their defense behind Hampton and Palumalu - Mike Vrabel was a DE in college - Rosevelt Colvin - How bout even Bryan Thomas? Great year last year... - Greg Ellis is playing extremely well as a 3-4 OLB this year - Shaun Phillips - "The Other guy" I mean that right there is basically every OTHER OLB in the 3-4, all of whom were DE's in college and now dominating OLB's. And that's just a list of the talented 3-4 OLB's, I can expand on this list with rookies and back-ups who fit the "tweener" description. In addition, as for Chris Long. Despite you admitting that players do specifically add weight for their weigh ins, lets just assume that he's a special case and didn't, and that he is in fact playing every day at 279 lbs. Well here is a list of every starting DE playing as a 3-4 DE in the NFL this year, with their weights included (not included the Jets DE's). Not only would Chris Long by far be the smallest of the bunch, but other than two DE's (Jarvis Green and Brad Kiesal) who both are considered small for the position and rare cases, all other DE's have AT LEAST 12 pounds on Long, with most of them around 20-30 pounds heavier than him. I mean the numbers don't lie man. I made my point and now backed it all up with factual evidence. I love Long so much, I still wouldn't mind him on the Jets. All I'm saying is a 3-4 DE in college is nothing like a 3-4 DE in the NFL. He's vastly undersized and that might pose a disadvantage for him. Aaron Smith - 298 Brad Kiesel - 285 considered small Jarvis Green - 285 Richard Seymour - 310 Ty Warren - 300 Bryant Young - 305 Marques Douglass - 292 Marcus Spears - 298 Chris Canty - 300 Igor Olshanky - 309 Luis Castillo - 290 Shaun Smith - 325 Robaire Smith - 320
In addition, Quentin Groves was officially just moved to OLB for Auborn today, so he's already "learning" the new position....perfect pick for us if you ask me.
LOLOLOL...basically, I never said you were wrong. I was telling you that I'm glad Groves was moved to OLB at "AubOrn". If we draft him now, that will only make him more effective. I still think Chris Long isn't undersized.
Notice that one of the best players on this list is listed at only 10 pounds heavier than Long who, remember, is still in college. If you watch him play or read anything about him, it's not his size people are hung up on. It's his motor, strength, quickness, and desire to be the best he can be. I can't see why a team that runs a 3-4 wouldn't want a guy who functions really well in a 3-4.
Umm, first of all, what do you mean "only?" Ten pounds is a hell of a lot of weight to be honest. Also, we're assuming Long is even playing at 279 lbs, which is VERY debatable. Second of all, I think the likes of Richard Seymour, Aaron Smith, Bryant Young, Marques Douglas, and Ty Warren would really disagree with you that Luis Castillo is the best DE of the bunch...
Have you played football? In what universe is ten pounds a big deal? Practically every guy Strahan beats weighs a lot more than him. Ten pounds is nothing, especially when you have leverage and strength. Also I didn't say Castillo was "the best". I said he's "one of the best". He is.
You're a douche bag. NJRaider is right about the "10 pounds not being a big factor in football". Vilma's problem isn't really the weight - it'd help him to be around 250 or 260, but the main reason he is uneffective is because he is surrounded by personel that is not fit for the 3-4. I'm glad you "USED A WEBSITE" to look up a bunch of random 3-4 ends -- most of these guy's played defensive tackle in college, so they're going to be bigger than Long. Who are you to say, that Long can't bulk up in the off-season and gain 10 measly pounds of muscle? Stop arguing with everyone, you're never going to win. Chris Canty played the same position at UVA that Long played, and he is playing very well right now in Dallas.
Cool, I'm a douche bag, didn't know my goal was to be liked by you, thanks for informing me with your unnecessary name calling though. Who says Long can't gain "10 measly pounds of muscle" oh, that would be his frame...that's who says it. His frame can't hold more than what he's at right now w/o diminishing his overall game and speed. Chris Canty's a decent/mediocre DE, but I'm glad you could find ONE decent player to prove you point against my 12 pro-bowl caliber players. Vilma's problem is the personnel around him? Dude, get over it, Vilma would never be able to play in a 3-4, he never could and never will. He's too damn small and not strong enough to make up for his lack of weight. He's a speed player. You've still yet to provide any amount of substantial evidence to support your arguments.
