Maybe Gholston's okay, but like some people i get nervous about these Combine tests. He didn't look all that bad in the Bowl game, the way people were saying. Competition was pretty stiff and he kept coming. But there's no question in my mind he's a better player for the NYJ if he's available than McFadden. Of course, we may not get a chance at either of them. Lane Kiffin thinks they won't be drafting McFadden, but he's not the guy who has the last say for the Raiders.
Just so everybody knows where they stand: This NYPOST am with Mark C.: "... "One thing I can say with conviction: We're working as hard and as smart as we possibly can to get better and make progress. [Jets fans] are not alone. I'm right there with them. We all want the same things." * Mangini is staying true to a quarterback competition from now through training camp between Kellen Clemens and Chad Pennington. "I've talked to both of those guys," Mangini said. "They're two good guys who are competitive and want to start. Nothing has changed with either one of them. They're two Type A personalities. It's important for both guys to have an opportunity. Chad has done a lot of really good things for us and Kellen has shown a lot of promise. They both deserve a chance to have that opportunity."
They may be nice guys, but are they John Elway or Tom Brady? Thats what matters more. Elways and Brady's aren't made, they're born with extraordinary gifts that the average human cannot possibly possess. Elway once shit gold before AND after single handedly leading the Broncos to a Super Bowl. Brady shit platinum because the Pats don't wear gold. What I need to see from one of these QBs is: Can they single handedly turn around a franchise? Some of you may say...but DWare what about coaching? What about the other 44 guys who dress on game day? QBs make those guys irrelevant. At best those people are pawns (or even obstacles) for the QB. I'd lean towards obstacles, because QBs always get the credit stolen by those other guys who do nothing.
Is it to much to ask for a Jay Cutler, David Gerrard, Phillip Rivers, Trent Edwards or any of the other 25 starting Quarterbacks in the league who can throw a ten yard out or scramble for a first down or not fold like a deck of cards even when they are surrounded but a top ten defense and have a Hof running back like Curtis Martin to compliment them. All we want is a mediocre to good Qb! Not one that goes 25-30 for 160 yards passing!
Phillip Rivers probably isn't the best example you can use there. The team that he's on is loaded with talent. Take him off of that team and he sucks.
I hear you, you mean stats like this? CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD 23 31 176 74.2 5.68 23 0 1 3.0 74.1 1 6 6.0 6 0 14 32 155 43.8 4.84 27 0 2 4.0 32.7 3 42 14.0 21 0 13 24 104 54.2 4.33 19 0 2 2.0 30.6 1 0 0.0 0 0
If all you can do is find a QB, then we should definitely keep looking. But you know, Chris Palmer, the QB coach for the NYG, believes strongly in the ability to intervene in a QB's performance and change it significantly. He was the guy, incidently, who was charged by the Texans to mold Carr when he was originally chosen No. 1 overall. His work was completely thwarted, as everyone now knows, by an abysmal OL that got him sacked 70 times a year until he "was no good for anything." Now Chris Palmer has convinced the NYG to sign Carr and give him another go with the QB behind one of the better OLs in the league. I would say he has made his case because of the presence of that OL, because without it nobody would be listening to him about Carr. I think that Chris Palmer may be reaching a bit if he thinks he can bring Carr back all the way from the multi-year beatings Carr has had to endure from betraying OLs. But Mangini apparently plans to bolster both of these QBs behind a fully rebuilt OL relying on his ex-Pats' WR coach turned QB mentor to do the job with Kellen and Chad. Not for a minute do i think Kellen or Chad is an Elway or a Brady. But without an OL in front of him, I wonder whether Brady would have been what we see now as Brady. I know that Elway, a great a player as he was, had to wait a terribly long time through his career before he got a strong enough supporting cast to get him to the Super Bowl. Let's build a tradition of winning at the NYJ. The championships will take care of themselves, and we will ultimately upgrade the QB position too. But we have to fix what we can first.
How many times did Chad fail his physical and not make all the throws required of him by the CS as a condition of playing at all? You seem to think that Chad is playing in a vacuum and everything that happens is his fault. I don't think he is a hero and I don't think he is a savior either. But the CS has a lot of faith in him to put him in this competition again. I think we should just cut him some slack. I don't think we should stop looking at QBs either. The reason why we often go 4 and 12 is because of the failure of the Big Uglies. Face up to it. Until we fix this glaring problem (and only games will tell the tale), all else is premature.
No, I just don't respond well to someone who can't think objectively. I know Chad can make some of the throws some of the time. I also know that since day 1 of this regime they have been heavy on the timing routes because, even when Chad can get time, he doesn't often get the ball there on time. Timing routes are mainly used for a heavy pass rush, and last year and also this year we were using then when he had time and that tells me his arm is undependable. And I also know that when Chad does air it out, a large portion of the time the ball has to hit the lower atmosphere to make it past 35 yards. He does get some zip on it some of the time. But only some of the time. Face up to it. The CS is forced to have a lot of faith in him because of a rather large contract and no takers on a trade.
Quote: "...Face up to it. The CS is forced to have a lot of faith in him because of a rather large contract and no takers on a trade..." Well, Abysmul, I have to disagree with you on this -- I just don't think the CS is motivated in their QB thinking by money. The position is too important to let the FO decide. If the CS thought what you think, Chad would be gone. If I was the coach of the NYJ and I thought what you think, Chad would be gone. Do you seriously believe Mangini would be able to keep that team with him when they were losing every week so badly (the other team coming from behind again and again) if he was nostalgically carrying "his boy" like some kind of crippled hermaphrodite in a wheelbarrow because he thought there would eventually be some "magic" coming out of him? There is a massive difference of opinion between the team , the CS, the FO as opposed to these feelings of a lot of fans. That's just how it is.
No, it isn't. But besides for Cutler and Rivers, none of those guys were first round picks. And Trent Edwards can go fuck agoat.
Quote: "...I also know that since day 1 of this regime they have been heavy on the timing routes because, even when Chad can get time, he doesn't often get the ball there on time. Timing routes are mainly used for a heavy pass rush, and last year and also this year we were using then when he had time and that tells me his arm is undependable..." If we see a preponderance of timing routes, it's because the BS offensive strategy seeks to use play-action to get the DBs out of position so our timing routes achieve separation. However, if the defense never takes the play fake because they already know you can't run on them to save your life then the DBs are instructed to jump on and feast off the timing routes at will. This is more likely the reason for the tactic and its failing than who the QB is or what brand of macaroni they made his arm out of.
You mean 3-4 that should have been 4-3 v.s. 1-8 with a healthy team from last year that was designed for your dink and dunk offense?
Funny thing about Carr, he took 68 sacks back in 05' I think, and he still managed to put up Chad Pennington like numbers. And yea, he didn't get injured either.
