CBS Sports: Chandler Jones trade rumor to Jets

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JohnnyP123456, Oct 14, 2018.

Tags:
  1. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,456
    Likes Received:
    2,216
    I would be very surprised if the Cardinals trade Chandler Jones. They are looking to acquire picks, but he's still in his prime and is a monster, and didn't they just extend him last year?

    I mean listen, I'd be thrilled with this, but I just don't see the Cards moving him of all people they can move.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  2. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    3,110
    Likes Received:
    3,293
    I find Bowles to be very average. Unlike a lot of vociferous posters, I like his personality a lot. His clock management, egregious wastes of timeouts, and failure to make adjustments are all terrible. His uber-conservative playcalling is frustrating, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the Jets being pretty talent-poor. I could be wrong there. At any rate, I prefer him to Rex, Mangini, or Herm. Not exactly a high bar, but I feel no particular urge to fire him and hurry on to the next average or worse HC. I mean, do you expect Woody to magically get better at hiring HCs? In this case, I expect average is about the best we can hope for.

    I can't agree that having a good defense is likely to impair this young QB. Anything that reduces the pressure of having the whole game on his shoulders should make it easier for him to take chances, provide more opportunity to recover from mistakes, and to keep the Jets competitive will benefit him.
     
    Mr mittens, FJF and ColoradoContrails like this.
  3. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    25,901
    Likes Received:
    26,654
    He’s a hell of a pass rusher. Let’s make a deal
     
  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,484
    All good points NC, and ones I've argued within my own head with, but there's a lot of "what if's" there. Bottom line for me is if we got him for the 3rd we got for Teddy, I'd do it. In essence that pick is like "found money". Adding Jones for that would leave us in the same position as we were after the draft, except instead of a back up QB we'd have a starting stud pass rusher.

    Now if the price starts rising much beyond that I would have to rethink it, but here's the other thing: In your "plan" the Jets would complete their rebuild with an entire roster of guys who about the same age, within 1 - 3 years of each other. That's the ideal, because then you can expect having that core for a long run. But in reality that never happens. Teams always have to upgrade/replace certain players, either due to injury and/or age, even players who are relatively young. As I said in my earlier post, building a team is a cumulative process, where you improve, and then improve some more. In this case they would significantly improve the defense to the level where it should be given the investment already made. Refusing to do it because we've already invested so much in the "D" wont make the defense any better. And with a Top 10 defense, which I believe they would them become, the playoffs are even possible, although not likely a SB, and that would attract better FAs at likely better prices.

    Yes, the risk is that it improves the team to the point where Bowles is kept on and that's not something I want. I don't think he's a good HC, nor will he ever be a SB winning coach IMO. But that's just my opinion. He might well surprise me. I have to say he's surprised me already by having the defense play better now that he's taken over that unit. Maybe Bates grows into the job as well and we wind up with a good CS. I don't think the odds favor that, but there are two things that come into play for me here:

    1. I don't want to root against a player or coach on a team I root for. Now that may seem odd given how I've said often and loudly that I think Bowles should've been fired two years ago and ever since, including calling for him to fired now. But those calls for dismissal were based upon his performance. That's not the same as actively rooting against him, hoping he fails. Just like I never rooted for the Jets to tank or lose on purpose for draft position - if they lost and we "won" a better draft position that was a good thing, but losing on purpose isn't. If Bowles continues to make poor decisions, especially in-game ones, then I'll continue to want him fired, but if he learns and improves and the team wins, I'm not going to be disappointed or be upset. The whole point of rooting for them is to hope they win after all.

    2. Firing Bowles will cause some amount of disruption, which may set Darnold back some before he - optimistically - rebounds and takes off again. The same can be said for the entire team as everyone adjusts to new coaching and schemes. This might take a season or longer. Now if the outcome is a SB in Year 2 or 3, then it's worth the price IMO. But what if the guy/guys you hire aren't any better than Bowles or Rex, Idzik or Tannenbaum? That's possible. The Johnsons, as clueless as they are, know this and will be very hesitant about trading in "the devil they know for the devil they don't".

    I'm still on the Fire Bowles (and maybe Macc) train, but I wouldn't decline adding an impact player or players because it might save his/their job. As of now, if the price for Jones is the TB #3, I would do it.
     
    Jets81 likes this.
  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    to be fair his clock management in this game was excellent and the team was prepared. and his playcalling has been great the past 2 weeks
     
  6. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,233
    Likes Received:
    9,922
    If all it takes to get Jones is a 3rd rounder, I'd make the trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. We'd finally have a pass rush and we can use our FA money and draft picks to address other holes on the roster.
     
    Cidusii and NYJFOREVER like this.
  7. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    15,565
    Likes Received:
    20,488
    I don't buy that they are going to trade Jones and I certainly don't think it will be for only a 3rd... but if both instances were true are you going to tell me you wouldn't trade Teddy Bridgewater for Chandler Jones?
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,484
    TBH his clock management was improved, but hardly "excellent". At the end when they were driving and had two time outs, Bowles wasted about 4-5 seconds before calling the first one - if he knew he was going to use it then, why the hesitation? And then he used the last one instead of having Sam spike the ball to stop the clock, and then almost didn't get it spiked so they could kick the FG.

    Playcalling "great"? Again, better maybe, but nowhere near "great". Seven FGs is testimony to not getting the job done in the RZ, a problem they've had all season so far. Way too conservative. Still using empty sets on 3rd down; no P.A. Against a good team they wouldn't have won with all the mistakes they still make.

    Better? Yes. But still a loooong ways from "excellent" and "great".
     
    Ralebird, phubbadaman, Jets81 and 2 others like this.
  9. Peebag

    Peebag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    891
    Why would the Saints or for that matter, the Cardinals, want to do that?
     
  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    IDK you should see the rest of the NFL games. did you see the TB game? or the miami game? hell miami had 3rd and goal in OT from the half yard line and a 6'7" QB and i was like sneak it. this is an easy win and they hand it off to a RB who fumbles lol. should have cost them the game but parkey missed the game winning FG and miami was able to get a shot at a FG to win it. it's much easier to criticize when we are on a couch with all the info blasted in our face. the team was ready to run up to the line and spike it and we got an extra 3 before the half. hard to complain about that
     
  11. jets21027

    jets21027 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    132
    Doubt this is true but the cardinals are a mess they need a total rebuild drafts picks make sense for them especially if your looking at a 2 or 3 yr rebuild.
     
    GasedAndConfused likes this.
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,484
    Just because other teams/HCs make mistake or dumb choices, doesn't mean Bowles is right - (Under the "Two wrongs don't make a right" philosophy"). I was contesting your assessment that Bowles's clock management was "excellent", and clearly it wasn't, nor was his playcalling. I've acknowledged when Bowles has done well or pleasantly surprised me - yesterday I even praised his running of the "D" and acknowledged that some of the problems were more to due with missing starters than his decisions - but you never hold him accountable, you always make excuses for him. Even his agent wouldn't be so forgiving.

    Because there is no alternative, I'm giving Bowles the rest of this season to finally show us that the "light bulb" is on and not flickering. If he does that, then great. But I doubt it. And if he doesn't do MUCH better than what he's shown in 3+ years (4 by the end of the season), then he will have shown he's at best a mediocre HC, and not good enough to get to a SB let alone win one, and therefore he needs to go. And this assessment is based on emotion, or bias, it's based on results. He's a sub-.500 coach by a long measure. He needs to immediately show he's better than that.
     
    Ralebird likes this.
  13. Trainer

    Trainer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    2,458
    1. I would be surprised if Jones is actually available, but who ever expected the Raiders to trade Mack?
    2. If he is available, it will certainly take more than a third round pick to get him. The Mack trade is the benchmark by which teams will evaluate the values involved in such a trade.

    So, the questions become "Is Chandler Jones better than anyone we 'might' find with our first round pick"? Probably.
    Do we pull the trigger or wait until FA and the draft and try to get an edge rusher then? Bird in the hand vs. two in the bush.

    Then there's the window of opportunity to consider. At some point, if he is as good as we hope, we'll be paying Sam upwards of $40 million - that will seriously hinder where we can allocate resources down the road. It's just the nature of the game and the way QB salaries are trending these days.

    We'll also have a number of others coming due - Williams, Adams, Maye, Jenkins, Lee... and that's just on the defensive side of the ball.

    After this season we'll have about a 3 year window to make a run before the cap becomes a major problem. Mac has been great with cap management so far, but there's only so much you can do when one player sucks up so much of it.

    If I'm Mac, I pull the trigger on Chandler; load up the offensive side of the ball in FA and draft and take my shot.
     
    Mr mittens and ColoradoContrails like this.
  14. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    the fact we got the FG before the half shows good management. the fact we were ready to sprint down and spike the ball with 3 seconds left was perfect. you couldn't have asked for a better well coached team in that situation. we were aggressive and went for the extra 3 points before the half and got it and left no time for indy. your pretty much nitpicking at this point. no coach will make 100% decisions perfect in real time during a game, you have to look over the whole body of work during the game. what your doing now would be like saying darnold had a shitty game because he had the 1 bad throw ignoring the rest of his game which was near perfect. the only way you'd have a point is if we ran out of time and didn't get the FG try at the end. I do hold him accountable when it's warranted. I'm not going to be an angry emotional fan who overreacts to any little thing and blows stuff out of proportion. ok maybe i will during the game, but not after the game. I'm going to watch the truncated replay version again tonight on the app and i'll look out to see if i missed any glaring mistakes by bowles and his clock management. also BTW what about the 3rd and short and bowles played the pass on D and confused the fuck out of luck? that was an excellent risky playcall that worked which is what we've been begging for.
     
  15. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    arizona is fucked. they are in need of a full rebuild. they have a rookie QB but a piss poor defense. they won't be good for the next 3 years at minimum. it would make sense for them to move jones for picks instead of pissing away cap on a stud player who isn't going to help them get wins in their current state.
     
  16. Id offer a 3rd & a day 3 pick in 2020.Hes a damn good pass rusher but not the same level player as Mack.Way too much talent at the edge in FA.Unless we plan on either doubling up or devoting the entire offseason to the offense w a defensive/ST depth signing here & there which id be in favor of but likely unrealistic
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,484
    First, I never said any coach was perfect. That's a "straw man argument". As is saying that what I said was the same as "saying darnold had a shitty game because he had the 1 bad throw ignoring the rest of his game". A. I didn't say that, nor would I; B. It's not the same.

    Secondly, we very nearly didn't get that play off and have the chance for the FG. Yes, they showed good discipline and awareness to hustle up to the line and get the play off, but all it would've taken was for one guy to not have gotten there for whatever reason, maybe injury, and they wouldn't have made it. It was dumb to count on perfect execution and hustle instead of spiking the ball on the previous play and saving the TO for the FG.

    As to the defensive play calling, I already noted that I gave Bowles credit for that. I'm still waiting for you to say anything bordering a criticism of him.
     
    Ralebird likes this.
  18. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,902
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Arizona is almost in the exact same position as we are. They have a good rookie QB and a ton of cap room next year. They are also likely to get a top 3 pick this year. Jones is in his prime and signed for reasonable money for a few years. They have absolutely no reason to get rid of him now. The, like us have a rookie QB on a rookie contract they can afford to have one of the top 3 edge rushers in the league in his prime for at least 3 years.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,286
    Likes Received:
    28,714
    That's not what I said at all. I said that adding the edge rusher that Bowles has wanted/needed could make Bowles become even more conservative on offense, throwing shorter passes and running the ball more. THAT (throwing shorter passes, running more and being more conservative on offense) would impede Sam's development.
     
  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,286
    Likes Received:
    28,714
    Bowles has already tried to win with D and been very conservative. If he gets the edge rusher his D needs, he knows that his offense will be able to get off the field a lot more often, resulting in the offense getting more possessions. With more possessions, they'll have more opportunities to score points, and the opposing offense will have less opportunities to score points. So, why take risks? Play conservatively, run the ball, throw short passes, play the field possession game. It makes total sense. Sorry that you can't see it. You may be happy with Bowles' kind of thinking. I'm not. I want to see a 21st Century offense, not some throwback from the '60s.
     

Share This Page