I love how ESPN and the media are "full of crap", but when they praise your guy/team they are great. :lol:
No, because I listened to guys who have spent hours and hours watching tape about him. I only needed to see some tape on him to realize they were the ones that are right. And I'm not saying those guys have a "personal vendetta" against Clemens, but you're going to listen to two independant scouting sites over Ron Jaworski and Gil Brandt? Give me a break.
So basically your point is that it's alright for to formulate opinions on a player never having seen him play as long as you agree with the Jets. I can tell you from having watched him that his arm strength and mobility are not good. Just about everybody agrees with that--as far as I'm concerned it's fact. His accuracy & consistency were also very shaky when I saw him. Just about every single scouting report that you can find will agree with that, but like you said I haven't really seen any of his good games so I'll concede that as being only a major concern, not a fact against him. Basically everybody except for Jaws agrees that Clemens is probably a fringe NFL starter, let alone better than Leinart, Young and Cutler. Like I said, believe what you want to believe but I will go with facts over one man's opinion.
I never said that. WTF is your problem? I'm sure I'm the only one who would listen to Ron Jaworski, Merrill Hodge, Gil Brandt, and Mike Mayock over a couple of internet draft sites. People that have spent much more time watching tape on Clemens than anyone here, like Jaworski, Hodge, Brandt, Mayock, all say he has good arm strength and puts very good zip on all his passes. I'll listen to those four guys, when it comes to a QB, before I listen to any independant scouting site, or teenager on an internet message board. And when it comes to the draft, there are no "facts". Get off your high fucking horse, already.
His post was edited to exclude the part where he said that if Herm had made the choice that I'd be all for it. Plus he made much more blatant comments here and here. Like I said, if 10Pennington10 has some sort of issue with me I'd be more than happy to discuss it with him.
Isn't everyone's views on a player their "opinion," even the views contained in a scouting report? The truth of the matter is that no one can truly predict a player's effectiveness in transitioning from the college to pro game. Some players step up, some don't. Some are coachable and get a lot better, some aren't. All I know for sure is that Clemens was a good college quarterback. Only time will tell what he becomes in the NFL.
If that's not what you were saying than I'd love to hear what you meant when you reiterated that 2 games was too small a time to sample a QB prospect for me but 0 games was more than enough time for you. I saw what Jaws had to say as well, and I don't agree with him at all. Like it's been said above anybody's opinion on Clemens is just that--an opinion. Whether or not I was pro-Herm is irrelevant. So why don't you step off and like I said, if it's really important to you to get a shot in at a complete stranger on an internet message board then I'd be happy to debate you in the trashtalk forum. If not, shut the fuck up and only respond to my posts if you have something logical to respond with.
Did anyone just hear Jaws's take on Tavaris Jackson? Great arm, can manipulate coverage, etc, he flat out LOVED him. After hearing that glowing report of a qb from Alabama State I am just starting to get very skeptical. It is one thing to hype a QB outside of the big three, but now two of them. I doubt very much in 5 years we will be looking back on Kellen Clemens and saying he was the best from this draft......
:lol: Wouldn't it be hilarious if Jaws described every single QB in the draft the exact same way? It would probably create enough pandemonium in football message boards to shut down the internet. Of course you still have no response to the fact that everybody in the world acknowledges that Clemens has a weak arm and sporadic accuracy, but at least you can still make yourself laugh.
What's even better is how you still have no response to what I'm saying. Jaworski, Brandt, Mayock, and Hodge have all said he has a strong arm and good zip. Why the hell are you fighting that? I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but due to the fact I haven't seen enough of Clemens, I will base my early opinion of him on what these experts have to say, over a couple of draft sites. It's amazing how you can't admit that not EVERYONE agrees with you. I've given you four names in multiple posts that agree with you, and many would agree that they all are pretty smart when it comes to football, and you're choosing to ignore that. Why? I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. But you're assumption that everyone agrees with what you say is wrong.
I'm having a little trouble finding an attack in that post you quoted, or anything referring to 'anti-Tangini'. I'd like to think that I know what an attack looks like.
Is that specific enough for you? I have acknowledged their opinion. And I don't agree with them at all. The fact that Clemens has subpar arm strength is written in stone and it's not worth argueing. Seeing 1 quarter of his play is enough to show you that.
You've acknowledged that Jaworski said it, but you also said that EVERYONE agreed with you. Why must you act like you know everything about this? It's very childish (although I think you're like 15, so that's acceptable).
