Can our passing game get going?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NYJ1970, Oct 19, 2022.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Since when is a season 3 games long?
     
  2. JetFanInNE

    JetFanInNE Well-Known Member

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    And if there isn’t, dammit we’ll die trying to find it!
     
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  3. hornblower

    hornblower Well-Known Member

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    Not this week. Broncos have trouble scoring. The Jets will play field postion against a good Denver defense. Win by one.
     
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  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Given a choice right now Saleh and LaFleur would prefer to let the running game carry Zach rather than Zach's passing carry the team. While he's made a lot of improvement since last year, he still hasn't mastered the timing part of the position, or the "Speed of the game". It's sometimes still too fast for him, or possibly it's the plays they call that take too long to develop, or a combination of both. In any case, when Zach has time he sets up and has good mechanics which gives him good accuracy; when he's rushed the mechanics break down and his accuracy suffers. This mostly happens when he tries to work from the pocket...when he goes on the move he plays much more fluidly and his mechanics synch up.

    So some would say the answer is to just call more roll outs to get him out of the pocket and on the move, but that isn't a long term solution. He needs to learn how to work from the pocket, and how to move in a pocket that's collapsing and still make plays and not rush his mechanics. That's why the Jets are keeping the "training wheels" on. They could give in to fan pressure and have Zach throw 40 or 50 times a game but even if they won some of those games, he wouldn't learn what he needs to learn. The formula they're following is allowing Zach to learn at the same time increasing the team's chances of winning. That sounds like a pretty good formula to me.
     
  5. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Except the choice is not binary unless the question is "should the Jets have a balanced offense or not?" Beyond the very short term it's an absolute necessity in the NFL to have the capability to move from air to ground and back again without the artificial restriction of the entire game plan or the safeguarding of the quarterback from his own faults.

    Everything after your first sentence is pretty hard to argue with but there's one factor that is seldom mentioned here and that's still the big subpart of the "speed of the game" which is identifying the defenders. The cautious game plan so far may be a work around in the short term but it's no all time fix. All the accuracy, good mechanics, fluid movement and strong arm of the QB won't compensate if he can't see the LBs and DBs everywhere on the field regardless of how fast or slow the play develops. What we'll learn very quickly when the entire playbook is opened is if that problem is in the past.
     
  6. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Zach hasn't been asked to do much so far... but he has made significant plays to extend drives and close out games.
    The Steeler game was a case in point.

    So it's difficult to tell if his game is improving... unless we give him credit for managing the game well and all but eliminating turnovers... which we should.

    I'm still waiting for him to have that breakout game that silences his critics... for at least a week... :confused:
     
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  7. NYJ1970

    NYJ1970 Well-Known Member

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    For short stints maybe, but that isn't enough....
     
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  8. NYJ1970

    NYJ1970 Well-Known Member

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    It may NOT be this Sunday....
     
  9. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    For me, I've been critical of MLF. Thing is, I have to keep reminding myself that he, along with Saleh, are in the learning stage too. Sometimes I forget that. On the passing game, I don't like how they utilize some players, even Mims.
    All OL issues aside. it seems after the last two weeks, they're beginning to integrate Uzomah into the offense, which was especially noticeable last week. At the outset of the season, Breece wasn't used as much. So, as the OL is stabilizing, maybe we'll start seeing a more productive passing game added to the repertoire.
    In other words, maybe it's not just about holding back Zach, but the CS going through their own learning process, & not biting off more than THEY can chew.
    I expect the Broncs to focus on the run, so it'll be interesting to see if MLF goes all-in on running, or tries to surprise the Broncs, & focus on screens & short passes to the TEs. Or, my fav... the no-huddle to start the game.
     
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  10. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Actually, it isn't a different thing, that's the point, if you only part money when they are good then that comes under the heading fairweather fan.

    It's called support, common sense and supporting a football team does not belong in the same sentence, it has nothing to do with common sense.

    Should I buy a jersey for the 23 season,

    Your take
    Nah man, they are still shit keep your dollars in your pocket = common sense

    or showing up as a shit fan that only invests when the team is winning.

    Buy your damned jersey if you support the team, it really is that simple.

    Granted I don't have the hard decision to spend thousands on tickets, but I can't do anything about that.


    'That’s not whining, it’s common sense.'

    and the folks whining that we are not passing enough, our QB isn't getting enough yards and TD's and all the rest of the whining going on.

    Is that common sense as well, nah, it is finding something to whine about because the team is winning and they now can't whine because they are losing.

    Have a good night, I'm done.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    But I DID mention the "speed of the game" as the MAIN issue that Zach has to address. I said that it's the thing from which his other issues arise. He needs to improve his processing of what's happening so that he doesn't feel rushed and so that he can go through all his progressions and make the right decision more quickly so that when he executes his mechanics don't get sloppy thus affecting his accuracy. Simply put: He needs to speed up his mental processing so that his body has the time to do what he asks it to do properly.

    And where did I say that this is a "long term fix"? In fact, from my analogy to "training wheels":

    it should be easily inferred that since training wheels are intended as a temporary training tool, they are not "long term".

    But three games is hardly enough time to draw any conclusions about whether he can have the training wheels removes. To continue the analogy: Take a group of kids who don't know how to ride a bike and give them bikes with training wheels. Are you going to say: "Okay you have 3 days to learn how to find balance before I remove the training wheels" to all of them? Of course not. Some may achieve balance right away; others may take a few weeks. But having discovered what that hard to define term "balance" means and translating it into having your body respond to it, doesn't mean you can predict out of that group who might win a Tour de France...it might be the one who took the longest to master balance. And it doesn't mean that if you take the training wheels off for someone you can't put them back on if you see they're still struggling, but eventually they will learn.

    All of that is to say that too many people are too impatient concerning Zach's development. But rather than focusing statistics, they ought to be looking at the whole picture, including Zach's entire body of work up to now, to see that he's making improvement, and that the great physical skills - including great accuracy - he displayed at BYU are still there.
     
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  12. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Yea with a reply like that I’d say you’re done, too.

    “Hey everyone throw your money at a team that hasn’t produced a playoff birth in over a decade. It’s just what you’re suppose to do regardless of whether they’re shitty or not because if you don’t you’re a fair weather fan”.

    A fool and his money I guess.
     
    #112 Jets81, Oct 20, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2022
  13. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    He absolutely needs to work on the short ball. Too many times his guys have had to contort and make plays to grab something that they should be hit in stride with, or just hit right in the hands.

    They're making the plays right now and that’s the important part, but those low quality passes are likely to cause issues at some point. Hell they could even end up causing injuries.

    It’ll be interesting to see how he responds when the box is stacked and opponents dare him to win the game. I believe he can do it with a somewhat consistently clean pocket.
     
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  14. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Of course you mentioned the speed of the game but it seemed in the context of seeing what the receivers were doing as the play developed and nothing about finding their relationship to the defenders. That's the point that few here seem to want to address and a factor that's been my biggest problem with him even before he was drafted. You may recall I had big problems with the competition he faced his last year at BYU and how it would not easily translate to the speed of the NFL game.

    And you never said it was a long term fix, I just emphasized it wasn't. Somebody here last week actually claimed that the "only" thing that mattered this year was finding out if Wilson was the answer for the future as if winning games should not even be an after thought. By that logic, Wilson should have been throwing the ball all over the field in the last three games - I haven't seen anyone come back this week and say they're doing it all wrong.
     
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  15. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you're making the case that the measure of how good a fan is can be gauged by how much money he lays out to the team. Please tell me I'm wrong; Woody Johnson is a billionaire and he's never done a thing for me, why should I line his pockets?
     
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  16. JETFUEL1580

    JETFUEL1580 Well-Known Member

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    I'll always prioritize winning ahead of individuality stats. How can anyone have an issue with Zach as of now considering we've won every game he's started. Not necessarily all cause of him, but he has played a significant part in a few of them. How is Zach a problem again? He's gonna have to throw the ball and some point when the running game is neutralized during the season, but even then I'm not gonna crush the guy if he doesn't throw for 400 yards either. Some of you wanna win and look pretty winning, as a Jets fan just be happy you're winning as of right now.
     
  17. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    LOL….
     
  18. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    Zach has not lost any games and is definitely showing improvement in his reads and learning how not to over extend himself on plays which usually causes big mistakes - turnovers. If the coaching staff wants to keep the training wheels on while the OL and running game is working so be it. They’ll know when the time is right to let it fly and the few glimpses we got of that Zach has taken command (Pittsburgh).

    There really isn’t much to complain about right now as a Jets fan …..
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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  20. JETFUEL1580

    JETFUEL1580 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!!!

    This is exactly my point. Zach has shown improvement and is doing what's being asked of him. He'll be forced to let it fly a lot more at some point, but now is not that time. For some people to want him to be Mahomes or Allen as of now is insane.
     
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