Yes Trevor is a significantly better prospect than Sam was. Also it doesn't matter what we thought Sam was because we now know what he is, and he isn't good enough to warrant passing up Trevor.
Do we know what Sam is? I honestly dont. He has not played enough, especially with starters. Sam has shown flashes and performed well on games but has not has the offense talent.
Sam was never a transcendent prospect. He was a GOOD prospect, maybe even a GREAT one. Definitely capable of being a franchise QB. Lawrence has been seen as a franchise QB and a transcendent talent since his 1st year @ Clemson. His ceiling is higher, his floor is higher. He's a can't miss prospect.
He has major consistency issues even considering the lack of talent around him. Both mechanical and decision-making. He also has trouble staying healthy, and he isn't any better than Flacco. It's enough to know we should be looking for an upgrade.
There is no such beast. But I'll grant his odds of succeeding are greater than most, including Darnold's.
He's the best prospect since Luck. That doesn't mean he'll be the best NFL QB, considering since Luck was drafted, Wilson and Mahomes both turned out to be significantly better NFL QBs. But it does mean he has a Hall of Fame ceiling and as good a floor as you can get out of a prospect. (Remember some people thought Wilson's height and Mahomes's college offense made them risky. They were wrong, but hindsight is always 20/20.)
Agreed. The clinching argument for me is when you have a chance to draft a consensus "can't miss" Qb you have to do it, even acknowledging there are no "can't miss" players. The Jets have had only two times in the post-merger history where they had the #1 pick. Neither time did they draft a QB, and one of those times they could've had Peyton Manning. While I still believe Darnold could be a FQB with the right conditions, the Jets can't pass up this opportunity if they have it.
To put it another way, the last three "can't miss" prospects were Elway, Peyton, and Luck. Two of the three turned out to be among the greatest ever, and third was still really good before injuries ended his career prematurely. In other words, if we can take Trevor, we take him.
No, they weren't "the last three". They were three, but pretty much every year there's a "can't miss" player Remember Jarmarcus Russell? RGIII? Sam Bradford?Marcus Mariota? Jameis Winston? Cam Newton? All were considered "can't miss" prospects by many. And of course our own Sam Darnold was thought of this way too. And then there's the fact that some of the greatest QBs weren't considered "can't miss". Tom Brady heads that list, but Mahomes and Watson are recent guys people had doubts about. Bottom line is that it's really hard to know who has all the attributes to succeed, even for the "can't miss" prospects.
This probably should have its own thread, but based upon a tip from long time poster Zace: https://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/2020-nfl-season-week-12-jets-vs-dolphins.94733/page-32 Zach Wilson of BYU may be a better prospect than Lawrence or Fields, or anyone else for that matter. I did a little reading: https://nflmocks.com/2020/10/25/zach-wilson-scouting-report-2021-nfl-draft-class/ and then watched this highlight video: http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/players/zach-wilson and what I'm seeing and reading makes me think "Mahomes", although from what I watched he doesn't have quite the arm of Mahomes, even though it's damn good. EDIT: Adding link to an article making this same comparison. https://kslsports.com/444089/patrick-mahomes-byu-zach-wilson/ His accuracy and ability to throw off the run and still have good mechanics is what reminds of Patrick. Yes, questionable strength of schedule, but he makes the plays, and has great accuracy. I'm going to try and find some more stuff on him, but Zace seems to know a lot more so maybe he can post some links/info. Also, would love to hear from legler and our other QB gurus. My initial impression though is he might well give us a chance to get a great QB AND trade back a bit for a haul of assets. That said, I wouldn't trade back past the 2nd pick if they really want him.
It’s obvious that we need a new qb, but something about Lawrence scares me. Too good a team around him, been hyped a long time, a lot of short throws taken for long gains. But What do I know. Hope I’m wrong, as I Think we’ll end up with him.
Yeah, that's what scares me too. He's had everything going for him, and yes, he's taken full advantage of that which is good, but how would he look under really adverse (i.e. playing for the Jets) conditions? Maybe he'd still do great, but I'm not convinced yet.
That's the only good thing about last couple of weeks that he missed, we got to see this same team but with someone else. That same good team that's around him with a good back-up QB barely beat unranked team coming back from behind, and then lost to #4 ranked team. With Lawrence in 3 seasons they have lost once, only to #1 ranked team in the finals of National Championship. Of course no prospect is perfect and Lawrence like anyone else can bust out. But Lawrence so far looks like the best one we've seen in a very long time.
Don't overthink this and wind up talking yourself out of a great QB prospect in order to try to get your cake and eat it too. Try to get greedy or outsmart others is what the Jets have done all too often and wound up looking like fools. Not this time.
There is no such thing as a "can't miss prospect." (I not only see that I'm the third in with this sentiment but got it verbatim with one of them.)
Sorry, if you read between the lines, there are. I've been following this junk for 40+ years and you learn to discern. I saw it with 3 prospects......Elway, Manning, and Luck. All hits.
NONE of those college guys had even 1/2 and maybe not even 1/10th the potential and belief that Trevor Lawrence had. Many had questions regarding size, health, injury history, quality of competition, etc. Jamarcus ? Most people had him low-1st round or 2nd or 3rd round. After Ryan Leaf, didn't teams do psychological testing ? He had atrocious work habits in both high school and college, and it was known to people who surfed the internet -- how could the Raiders and NFL not know about it in 2007 ? Only way he would have worked out in the NFL was if his $50 MM 5-year deal was for $1 MM a year for 4 years, with $46 MM backloaded at the end if he still is on the team. RGIII ? Big questions about him being able to be a passer in the NFL. The Shanahans did NOT want to trade the haul that Washington did for him -- that was a Snyder move. He had 1 good year -- The Pat White Year that all runners and trick QB's seem to have -- and then fizzled the rest of his time in DC. Attitude problem, too. Sam Bradford ? Injury history, questionable competition. NOBODY said was a can't-miss. A very weak QB class. Marcus Mariota ? Only Chip Kelly loved him. Another West Coast Mirage. A backup QB in Year 5. Jameis Winston ? Stolen Crab Legs....'nuff said. If you are too dumb to pay for food, you are too dumb to differentiate a single-man zone from a Cover-2. Cam Newton ? Again, a running QB who was a decent thrower but not a can't miss guy. Definitely worth taking #1 for 5-7 good years but NOT a franchise QB for 10-15 years like a Manning, Rogers, etc. Definitely some good QB's there...definitely some risks there.....also, some MAJOR warning signs for others at #1 or #2 overall....others better suited to being taken late in the 1st by a better team with a veteran QB that they could have learned under......BUT NONE OF THEM TRANSCENDENTAL FRANCHISE QB'S.
