Burrow is why we need Lawrence

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by FrontOfficeFanatic, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    That is a pretty hilarious analogy mostly because its so true.

    I also agree with you on everything except I'm not quite at the "we need 37 new players" place. IMO we need multiple above average players to become competitive - at least 10-12 quality starters. Players that are impact players at all positions - but especially up front on both sides of the ball. Not a bunch more average warm bodies. We like Becton. Imagine having an offensive line of all Becton level players. That is a lot to strive for but that is also team that goes far every season.

    I'm old school I guess. In my other thread people think I love the Quinnen pick when really I'm just pointing out it was a smarter pick then Allen was.

    I didn't want Q or Allen that draft - I wanted o-line.
    I wanted o-line instead of drafting Sam! (who we also gave up 3 second rounders for!)

    Like many reasonable Jet fans I've been screaming "draft the o-line" for the last 7 seasons. Old dudes like us have seen over the decades that those become the teams that win. Finally we did it which is the only thing JD has done so far that I thoroughly agree with. But that's one lineman down and four to go.

    This part is just for fun but I'm going to put it out there - considering there is an irrational frenzy for JL. If we get the 1st pick and Jax gets the second here is a trade I'd take.

    Jax get our 1.

    We get their 2, 26, 34, 48, and 66 from this draft. And their 1 for the next two seasons.

    That is four 1sts, two seconds, and a third.

    The 2021 draft would give us the top pick in the whole draft after TL while also having 3 first rounders. We'd have 3 seconds, including the first 2 picks of both the second and third round, which is a steal.

    That draft alone would drastically improve our team with young talent. Plus we'd have 3 firsts the next draft and two in 2023. You've just built a SB team with one trade as its backbone. All under the salary cap. And ya, there would be plenty of picks to finally get our QB when ready (IMO not Justin Fields).

    (On a side note I'd trade Mosley to the Cowboys for their #1 - and yes I think the'd go for it and I would be perfectly willing to part with the 12 million. Building takes those type of sacrifices and we can afford it. That gives us 4 first rounders this draft while freeing up considerable future cap space.)

    That is kind of a cherry example but if JD could pull something like that it would be epic. Get it done.
     
    #281 ouchy, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  2. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    I get this but I feel like it assumes that getting a franchise QB is simply a matter of deciding to get one. It's not that easy. It's REALLY rare to be the worst team in the league in the same year that the best QB prospect in like a decade is coming out.

    With the amount of early picks and cap space we have it's really not unrealistic to think we could surround Lawrence with a decent o line/weapons by his first year or the year after that. Our offensive line this season has been below average but not awful. It's also no guarantee that we'll even hit on our draft picks aimed at improving the o line/WR's. What if we miss on them? Do we just keep waiting indefinitely to draft a QB?

    The best plan imo is to draft Lawrence and then spend the vast majority of early picks/cap space surrounding him with talent on offense.
     
  3. jets_fan

    jets_fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    2,066
    This.

    If you have the "fortune" of being the worst team when THE QB prospect of the generation is coming out for the draft, then you take him. There's no over thinking this one. If there wasn't that type of prospect in this draft, then I'd be all over the idea of trading out of the spot with a team who falls in love with a player they want to move up for, but we haven't had a franchise QB since Namath. There's somebody who, by all accounts, will be that guy for somebody getting ready to come out for the draft. There's only one option if we're sitting there with the #1 pick.

    But, knowing the Jets, they'll find some way (and it'll probably be fantastic in its lack of predictability and the sheer lunacy of it) to mess this up and end up with someone other than Trevor Lawrence under center next season.
     
    REVISion likes this.
  4. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    I don't think it is easy to get a star QB at will, I think it carries a considerable cost. You have to be willing to send a haul to a bad team if you want to jump up, and you may have to outbid two or three other teams that are equally willing. I just think that's a far better bet than the bet that a rookie QB can develop properly while avoiding catastrophic injury while learning the game with no support.

    I will say that I could wholeheartedly get behind drafting Lawrence IF I thought the franchise would hand him a clipboard and sit him on the bench for a year and a half or more until the Jets can improve the rest of their roster. That won't happen.

    I think I've made my point--so I'll shut up about it.
     
    ouchy likes this.
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    9,188
    Likes Received:
    12,153
    A) I doubt Jax would do it, but you never know.
    B) I'd want to see/know more about Fields.
    C) I'd still lean towards just drafting TL, but would be tempted...that's a hell of a haul. If JD pulled that off I wouldn't cry too hard.
     
    ouchy likes this.
  6. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    6,607
    Lawrence would be expected to start on day 1. He'd probably go through some growing pains in year 1, but show signs that he's a FQB, and take a jump in year 2 when the game has slowed down and he has chemistry with his weapons.
     
    REVISion likes this.
  7. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Good points. So many unknowns at this point.

    Mock drafts have Jax drafting Fields at 2. They have a new GM. If they do want Fields how much more would they want TL?

    What we have to hope for is the frenzy. When drafts approach sometimes an irrational frenzy of value gets heaped on one player. Everyone wants that player and competition plus demand plus a stench of desperation or delusion drives an irrational trade. The more they glorify TL the better it is for the us. I'm not saying TL wont be good. I'm just hoping his value gets blown way out of wack and suckers start lining up to be taken. It has happened before and will happen again.
     
    #287 ouchy, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  8. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    Of course. My concern, again, is that he can't show many signs from the concussion tent or the emergency room.
     
  9. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,254
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Fine analogy, but...

    What if it's not an ordinary TV that can be bought every year? What if it's truly a one-of-a-kind item, and instead of keeping it in the windowless trailer, you can store it in a vault for a year or two while you work on the blueprints to a new house?
     
    REVISion and ukjetsfan like this.
  10. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    See my post #284 in this thread:
    I'm all about it, but the crackheads aren't going to be anywhere close to that patient.
     
    twown likes this.
  11. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,254
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    But if you don't have any hope that we're phasing out the crackheads, then what's the point of doing anything at all?
     
  12. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    If you love your crackheads, you keep trying to get them to go to rehab, no matter what, and no matter how many times they relapse, until they get it right.
    If your crackheads win the lottery, you really need to encourage them to get into rehab immediately. Not to buy more crack, or more stuff they can sell for crack later. Stuff like doors and windows and getting the water turned back on is something you can build on. Not sports cars, and not fancy electronics--unless it's a fancy security system.
     
  13. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    20,528
    Likes Received:
    12,762
    What if the television is equipped with its own security system that sprays a poisonous substance at the perpetrators to repel anyone from stealing it?
     
  14. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,014
    Likes Received:
    3,941
    Wouldn't work....crack heads would just find a way to combine the poison spraying out of the tv with bath salts, draino, and battery acid and make a super hybrid crack which makes them immune to the poison so they can still steal your tube!
     
    #294 Footballgod214, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
    twown and TwoHeadedMonster like this.
  15. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    Okay. I'd go for that. I'm not unreasonable.
     
  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    20,528
    Likes Received:
    12,762
    I mean my addition to the analogy sounds ridiculous but what I was really getting at was that you're drafting a quarterback that you hope can cover up the deficiencies of other spots of the team or at least eventually can. Because that's what the big time quarterbacks do.

    Similar to how that's what the television would cover up in the deficiencies of the security system.

    However what makes it nonsensical is that one crackhead would sell the television for $40 after buying it for a grand, the day after it was bought.
     
    REVISion likes this.
  17. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    It makes perfect sense to an addict, I promise you. I'm honestly glad you don't already know that--good for you.
     
  18. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    7,396
    Likes Received:
    5,909
    Not a cat in hells chance but I would take all that and Fields.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    26,401
    Likes Received:
    19,068
    You're missing three key points. One, that the QB the Jets trade up for in the future won't be as good as Lawrence, it likely will cost the Jets a lot more picks than they would get this year, and that QB could wind up being just meh or even a bust like Sam even with a better team around him and supposedly a better CS and HC, simply because he wouldn't be as good a prospect as Lawrence. Two, that after they trade for that QB, they will have few quality picks, if any for 2, maybe even 3 years afterwards to continue to build around him. That hole in successive draft classes would hurt the team much more in the long run than not trading down now. Three, there are no guarantees that even if the team does trade down now that the future QB would be any better off. If the Johnsons make the hire of the new HC or meddle, we could wind up with a new HC who is only marginally better than Gase. Lawrence is stronger mentally and fundamentally, and it would be much harder for an incompetent coach to ruin him than it was Sam, and I believe the likelihood is that Lawrence will not only survive, but thrive regardless of who his HC is. He is that talented and experienced playing in big games and against top competition.

    Using your analogy, if they wait on the TV, they could blow the money on crack, or the money could get stolen just as easily as the TV, in fact, it would be easier to carry money away than it would be a massive TV.
     
    REVISion and ColoradoContrails like this.
  20. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    1) So Lawrence is the greatest QB prospect since John Elway or Peyton Manning, or whoever you want to pick, but the Jets couldn't get as much if they trade down now as it would cost for them to trade up for a similar player in the future? No, I don't buy that. I think they can get a ton for the #1 this year. If they can't, then they should draft him--and they should fire everybody who couldn't get a good trade worked out.
    2) I simply disagree with this-- The quality of the surrounding roster is far more important in a rookie QB's first 2-3 seasons than it is after the QB is established. Thus bringing a rookie QB to a strong roster is more valuable than adding new rookies to the roster in years 1-3 of his career.
    3) Of course there are no guarantees. However, It's hard to imagine the Jets' ability to support a rookie QB getting any worse than it is at this moment. It doesn't get any better, it sure doesn't matter how they use their draft picks--they are headed for a lot of failure. I have seen plenty of top prospects get ruined because of bad coaching, poor protection, lack of skilled targets, and getting thrown to the wolves too early with too much pressure on them. The Jets, at this moment, present every one of those risks.
     
    ouchy and BrooklynJetsFan like this.

Share This Page