Good to great qbs are getting 30-45 million dollar a yr contracts, We need a qb more than any team in the NFL, and we can grab the 2nd best rated college qb in a deep qb draft, while still having a ton of draft cap. in the coming yrs. I am not convinced Wilson is the best choice, however, who is the best w/o in this draft , people can make a argument for each. Same can be said for qb. However, when you are in the position to take the pick of the litter, and have the assets to make that great you do it. We are in a good position
You're oversimplifying the errors, as though they happen in a vacuum, which they don't, they happen in a maelstrom. You can practice until the cows come home, but until you apply what you've learned in real world situations, you won't be able to react the way you should. Then you fall back into bad habits. This is exactly what happened to Darnold. He was improving Year 1, and then regressed in his two years under Gase. Again, I'm not absolving Darnold of blame, but what the Jets did to him almost ensured his failure.
No, I'm not. I'm speaking from years of experience working one-on-one with others helping them make physical changes. You're just repeating the bold, and it doesn't make sense. Nothing Gase or any HC says, should keep Sam from applying what he learned with Palmer regarding his footwork. In terms of decision making, any knowledgeable football fan knows that you don't throw into double and triple coverage, and you throw the ball away rather than taking a sack or running out of bounds. How did Gase prevent Sam from applying that knowledge in a game? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. You'd have a point, if these were brand new issues that have just arise over the last two years, or if Sam didn't have a private QB Coach with whom he's been working with since before he was drafted. It's time for all the excuses for Sam's lousy play to stop.
Again, you're making these observations as someone sitting at home watching the game, with the advantage of instant replay and slow-mo. How do you know he didn't work hard with Palmer and practice, only to get into live action and see his newly learned "skills' fall apart? From everything we know about Darnold, he's smart and he works hard - we have no reports to the contrary - so why would he decide to just sit on his ass and not try to improve? That just doesn't make any sense. There were many factors beyond his control that he couldn't overcome, that's the "Occam's Razor" answer to this.
Sam playing better than ever or one of the rookies not named Trevor or Zack, as in a trade down and grab one of the other rookies further down. 4? 8? not sure. But my point was we may not need a top FQB1 if the rest of our team is solid and whatever QB we have is well coached and the team around him is stellar.
You said that you coached teams, right? How many players did you have that worked hard to learn and improve, then got in gamea and forgot everything they worked hard to learn/change/improve? I'm not saying that he definitely didn't work hard. If you'll recall, I said that he either couldn't make the changes or didn't try. I have a hard time believing that he didn't try. I believe that Sam may have worked hard, and tried to fix those flaws, for whatever reason he is just not capable of making the necessary changes. Making those changes can be hard. It can be scary for people. Remember that Sam only started playing QB his soph. or jr. year in high school. I think he even missed some time in HS with injury. Then he didn't even start two full years at USC, so he didn't have a ton of experience playing QB. Who knows what level of mechanics coaching he received in HS and college, and a lot of what he did may have been just natural athletic ability. HS coaches are notorious for not messing with mechanics as they fear it could mess with a player's head and confidence and they not play as well. College coaches can be guilty of the same thing. So a lot of Sam's "security" and confidence may be tied up in how he has always played. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm right, it could be very difficult for him to let go. The way he played got him to be the #3 pick in the NFL draft and the starting QB for the Jets. Fear of becoming even worse or of getting benched could have sabotaged his efforts to improve or prevent his "remembering" the physical changes he tried to make. It may take hitting rock bottom (the shock of having to walk as a FA at the end of the upcoming season) and having to change teams, to give him the freedom to be able to make the needed changes. I'm speaking from the vantage point of spending the first 35 years of my life learning knowledge of what I do and how to impart it to others, and the last 20 years of my life doing it. I've had some clients who were lazy and didn't put in the work, and I've had a few that busted their butts yet still couldn't make the changes they needed to, but most everyone that put in the work could do it. Yes, in a game situation at first, nerves might intially cause some hiccups with the changes/fixes, but not wholesale abandonment. That would be an intentional choice at some level of consciousness. After the first game or two, then the player should settle down, relax, and the changes he worked hard to make would be there, unless he just wasn't capable of making the changes or something was blocking him. I'm also speaking from the vantage point of one who had to make drastic changes to my fundamentals and mechanics, and I know just how hard that is, how hard it can be to "let go" emotionally/psychologically, the fear, the confusion, the frustration in trying to change. One can start feeling like one is losing control, doesn't know what one is doing, and even though one knows with one's rational mind that one needs to change that technique/mechanic, it can be very difficult to do because one's identity and self esteem can be tied up in the way we perform. Yes there were a lot of factors that he had no control over, but there were things that he did have control over, like his footwork and reading Ds. Even if he couldn't make the footwork changes, he should have been able to learn to read Ds, and definitely should have made good decisions. Those were things that were under his control, and would have given him more success and confidence.
Darnold didn't need to "forget everything", it could just be a matter of forgetting to set his feet a certain way, or any component of what is actually a pretty complex set of movements and thoughts. I did coach youth soccer at a high level, and I'm basing my comments on that experience. I often saw kids bust their ass at practice and look good, but then get into a game - especially if it was against a tough opponent - and "panic" and go back to what they knew how to do. Then the next practice I would have them repeat the movement and they could do it easily. This aspect of what I'd call "situational forgetting" is most common in sports where the opponent is trying to prevent you from performing in a certain way. For instance, in baseball, players from the other team can't physically engage with you to prevent you from catching, throwing, or swinging a bat. In football, basketball they are. And in those sports you really have to deeply ingrain the learned movements and thinking so they become immune to the interference of your opponent. In Darnold's case he was under siege more often than not, and asked to complete plays with sub-average receivers and RBs, so that even if he did everything right, he might still "get punished" because his receiver didn't run the right route or catch the ball. Over time, that will effect his ability to depend on his newly learned movements/thinking and cause him to go back to old habits. Keep in mind that Darnold didn't really start playing football until his sophomore year in high school, and initially played as a receiver and LB'er, so before coming to the Jets he only had about 5 years of playing QB. And we know that the deepest learning occurs much earlier than than mid-teens. For complex sports, the earlier a kid starts the better, so while in general Darnold is a gifted athlete, when looking at his QB-specific ability he's a late learner. So being thrown into the chaos of the Jets situation was even more disruptive than it would be for a kid who had been playing QB for ten or more years. The reason that Darnold has struggled is NOT because he's lazy or uncommitted to changing and improving. That just doesn't jibe with what we know about him. He was put into the worst possible situation, and the results shouldn't surprise anyone.
I don’t venture into this thread much so I apologize beforehand if someone already mentioned this but Damien Woody yesterday on Twitter & IG was on his very on build around Sam campaign. He was on live on IG talking to fans about it if anyone wants to check it out.
With regards to the bold, did they continue to forget in every subsequent game in which they played, or was it just the one game? I'll bet that most of them "got it right" by their 2nd or 3rd game, and didn't continue to "panic" and go back to what they knew. With regards to the bolded italics, it shouldn't cause him to go back to his old habits. If so, then imo either Palmer is a lousy QB Coach, or Sam never really understood how the new footwork would benefit him, never truly bought into it, and committed to it. The footwork changes would have helped Sam in being ready to throw and made him more accurate, and with enough completed passes, other teams would have been forced to scale back their rush and try something different like keeping more people back in coverage. "Keep in mind"...Seriously? LOL Did you even bother to read my response? I just pointed those very points out to you in my last response. I stated it a little differently, but the meaning is the same. It is part of why he hasn't fixed those issues, and possibly never will, and that is all the more reason why Sam probably should have never been drafted by the Jets, and is the reason now that they should move on. It is why he shouldn't be playing this season. It's not like he's 30. He's only 23 and still in that youth period where he should learn quickly, and would have been 21 when he started trying to learn. Unless he has the pressure of playing and producing removed, and can just focus on fixing his flaws, imo he has little or no chance to improve at this stage of the game. I hate it for Sam. He is a good young man, but he never should have played his rookie season. The Jets should have hired a QB guru to work with him one-on-one every day the whole season.
Sorry, I did skip over the part of your post where you did talk about his limited experience. My bad. Still, the point remains: he did not learn how to play the position of QB as deeply as most NFL QBs do. He's obviously an exceptional athlete and was able to do very well despite that limitation, but playing at a professional level exposed his weaknesses. As to kids getting it by their 2nd or 3rd game, some took a little longer, but there's two key differences: 1. Kids learn new things faster. 2. They had explicit, hands-on coaching - during games and relating their performance in the games in the practices. Did Gase or Bowles or their respective OCs do that for Darnold? When my guys made a mistake, I'd take them out of the game and talk to them and point out what they did wrong and send them back in. When Darnold made mistakes, he came out, sat on the bench and no one talked to him. Actually, that's not entirely true: when McCown was on the team, Josh would talk to Sam and point things out, and not coincidentally, that was the best Darnold did for the Jets. So, Darnold was certainly capable of improvement, but particulary under Gase he didn't get the coaching he needed to get to do it. At this point it's clear we won't agree, except on the point that the Jets need to move on from him.
Just for fun and the Darnold fans...If the reports about Wilson are true with the 49ers, we could literally sell Wilson off at 2 to them, pick up some assets, and then sell Fields/ Lance off at 3 for a ransom to the highest bidder. I don’t know how many picks/ players we could end up with, but it would be pretty crazy.
Well, I think just about all who cared to weigh in on Sam, the #2 pick, and trading down have made their position known, and thx to all who did. As I have written many times, I sincerely believe that most members on this message board , even with no preparation at all, could have done a better job drafting than Idzik and MacCagnan (I really do!). Let's just hope Douglas does not screw it up because I think we are all sick of following a losing franchise. I think I will take a break from this message board until after the draft. I am NOT going away mad, though. I appreciate all the insight, and I think we all share a bond following the team that has hired some of the worst coaches and GMs on the planet, hand-picked by owners who squat about football. I actually live in the midwest, right in the middle of Minnesota Viking country. Now THERE is a group of fair-weather fans. When they are going good, everybody here loves the Vikes. When they go bad, everyone disowns them. At least the jets have won a super bowl. The Vikes have been there four times and lost all four. I always tell people that I have two favorite teams--the jets and whoever is playing the Vikings that week. Take care, my friends.
No problem! Yes, kids learn fast, but at 21, and even 23, Sam should still be able to learn pretty quickly. You're right that during the last two years, neither Gase nor his coffee boy ever talked to Sam during the game, which is ridiculous. As I've said before, Mac and the Jets couldn't have done any worse in how they handled Sam if they tried. Maybe he was too young to get through this on his own the last couple of years. Actually, I think we agree on a lot, perhaps most details. I have said that with a change of scenery, the right CS, and the chance to sit and learn behind a proven starting QB, Sam is still young enough to fix his issues. I hope he will.
I wanted Sam to be IT as much as the next guy. There's too much debate on this topic though. The bottom line is if Sam had IT we would largely know it, and there wouldn't be a debate. The fact that there's even a debate answers your question. I know he had Gase. I know the talent around him wasn't there. But he has barely flashed since his rookie season. He's making the same mistakes he made game 1, in reads, and missing receivers. Regardless of the talent and coaching, he would have shown spurts enough for us to say, yeah he's got it he just needs talent around him and a better coaching staff. Instead, we are debating if he has it at all. Every indicator says he doesn't. The debate is driven by the fanbase WANTING it, rather than the data and the objective facts. Sam is not it guys. Reminds me a lot of people realizing Mariota just wasn't THE GUY. Also, spare me the Tannehill comparison. He is the exception, not the rule. 9/10 times it doesn't go that way. I'm also fairly confident if Tannehill didn't have a rushing champ, bulldozer RB, which the offense funnels through, we wouldn't even be talking about him. And half of you saying let's give him one more year, will be losing your minds by week 8 if and when it's the same old, crying SOJ, calling for JD head, questioning Saleh hire, with it sinking in that the 2022 QB class doesn't sniff this one. Rinse and repeat Jets cycle. Move on. Our future is Zach Wilson. It's absolutely the right thing to do, and the antithesis of Jets history.
This topic has been beaten to death over the past few months. I was one of the original ones who LOVED Sam. He was an extremely likeable player with amazing talent. He came from a good background, had a drive to work and improve his craft, and really seemed level headed to take on New York. It is unfortunate that he was brought into a few systems that lead to his failures, but I think it is much more than that. In my view, Sam was never the guy I had thought he would be. I always thought he would round the corner "next year". I kept holding out hope anticipating he would flourish and finally let his talents take control. Sam's mistakes have haunted him since his days in college. His poor decision making, poor ball control, poor accuracy (at times) has followed him his entire career and it does not matter how good his weapons are, those issues will continue. I am not sold on Zach Wilson due to the talent he played in college, but I am excited in his abilities and the style of his play. He reminds me A LOT of Mahomes and Rodgers. I am excited to turn the page on Sam and put my hopes in another young prospect. I think this team and new coaching staff needs a restart with a new face.
Totally beaten to death, and for no actual reason other than fans wanting to will it into reality. Yes, to everything you said.
If it leads to acceptance then yes. And listen, I wish Sam well. I want him to succeed and hope he can figure it out. It's just not going to happen here, the Jets need to and are moving on for good reason.
