W all respect.. Jets arm chair QBs..? The majority.. -Wanted to re-sign Fitzpatrick in 16 - Didnt want Mahomes & Watson -Wanted to sign Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed deal -Thought Josh Allen would never complete an NFL pass Forgive me for not patting the group colllectively on the back or giving their consensus this time around much creedence
I never said the bar for people intimately connected to the league wasn't low. I only said they haven't cleared it.
All true, and I'm guilty of some of those, not guilty on some, but still, on balance, TGG would do better than Maccagnan!
Yeah, there are some Darnold fans, but way less than say past years with fans defending Pennington or Sanchez. Winning may be the main reason why, and I guess that is fair. Yeah, great points. And yes, I was generalizing. The majority of those fanbases love their QB, where I never got that sense from the majority of Jets fans. That makes sense. I think he did recover from the ghosts game though. He had a strong second half to the season in 2019. That is what made 2020 so disappointing to me. Yeah, I agree with most of that. I will defend Sam for all of the terrible stuff he has been surrounded with in New York (coaches, roster, etc) but at the end of the day he needs to play better too. Football is football. I think if he was a great QB, we would still be able to see that despite the crap around him. He has shown that he is not a great QB, but I think he can still be a good QB. I always think about the terrible INT he threw at the Redskins game I was at. They were a really bad team, so it did not cost the Jets, but in a normal game against a good opponent it would have shifted momentum. Sam always has a couple plays like that a game, which to me is all on him, and that is the stuff that is worrying. I like him and will always wish him success, I just can't guarantee he will have any. I think it is possible though, unlike some posters.
IMO it doesn't really matter why Colorado and I had the misperception that you were against taking a QB. The important thing is that is cleared up and we're all on the same page as far as that goes now. Sometimes one just has to cut one's losses, and it doesn't matter what you paid for him. You only make that cost worse if you wind up wasting another year giving him another chance. There are several reasons I think that Wilson is a better prospect than Fields, Lance and Jones, and maybe even Lawrence. One, he's the most accurate of any of the QBs. He's the most accurate on short, intermediate and long passes. He's the most accurate from a clean pocket, from throwing on the run or under pressure. He anticipates throws and can fit throws into tight windows. His mechanics are the best of the group. Lance is the least accurate, Lawrence's accuracy isn't great, and Fields has problems with short passes, but can fit the ball into tight windows, and is very accurate on intermediate and deep passes. He needs to work on anticipation and throwing his receivers open. Lawrence can fit the ball into tight windows, but with his accuracy issues, he could throw more interceptions in the NFL. Jones can fit the ball into tight windows and his accuracy is very good. I believe he is a close second behind Wilson. Two, he is able to read defenses, has excellent field vision, makes quick, good decisions, and gets the ball out very quickly. That helps the OL tremendously. The only one of the other QBs who can rival or maybe surpass Wilson in this regard is Jones, and Wilson is more mobile/athletic and has a stronger arm. Fields has a long deliery which seems to help with his accuracy on long passes, but hurts him on short passes. He doesn't process very quickly right now, and never may. He makes some questionable decisions. Both Fields and Lance are more prone to take off running when they feel pressure or can't get through their progressions. Wilson stays in the pocket or rolls out and finds a receiver. He only runs as a last resort. Lance makes questionable decisions at times and may not see the field as well or read defenses as well. I haven't watched analysis videos of Lawrence since we're not likely to get to draft him, and I don't remember from when I watched him earlier. Three, imo Wilson is more polished than any of the other QBs save for maybe Jones, and his mechanics are solid, as are Jones. Fields, Lance and Lawrence all need work on their mechanics and on how they play the position of QB. Four, Wilson is a very good leader. Fields seems to be a very good leader. It's hard for me to tell about Lawrence, Lance, and Jones. Their teams were so much better than any of their competition, with the exception of Clemson when they played OSU, and OSU when they played Alabama. Fields was hurt vs Alabama, so he wasn't his normal self. I didn't see anything from Lawrence vs OSU in terms of fire and leadership. He was competent and that's it. I saw no shots of him trying to rally his teammates. He was sitting calmly on the bench, while Fields was out there making plays and firing his teammates up. When a team is almost always ahead, it's hard to tell about a QB's leadership and ability to rally his teammates. Five, I see some of Rodgers and Mahomes in Wilson. He is a creator, He has the "it" factor. He can throw the ball from any arm angle. I don't see that in the others. Six, Wilson, Jones and Lawrence have the best pocket awareness. Wilson is nimble and mobile in the pocket. He senses pressure well, as does Jones, and I think Lawrence. Jones steps up in the pocket, but just isn't as mobile and elusive as Wilson or Lawrence. Fields can get so focused downfield that he doesn't sense pressure, then when he feels it, he looks to run much of the time, rather than find an open receiver. I think Lance tends to run more when he feels pressure rather than finding an open receiver as well. All of the QBs were pretty good with not throwing a lot if interceptions. Wilson was careful with the ball and didn't turn it over very often this past season throwing only 3 interceptions in 336 attempts. He had 9 in 2019 in 319 attempts, but he had surgery to repair the torn labrum in his throwing shoulder in January of that year, missed spring camp, and was probably adjusting to his shoulder feeling different and regaining strength. He evidently learned from that He also only had 3 in 182 attempts his freshman season prior to the surgery, so that says to me that the surgery and recovery is what led to the spike in his interceptions in 2019. In his one year starting at NDSU in 2019 Lance didn't turn the ball over. In his one game in 2020 he threw an interception and I think came close to throwing another one. Mac Jones had 4 interceptions this past season in 402 attempts, and 3 in 141 attempts in 2019. Fields had 6 interceptions in only 225 attempts this past season, and I think had a couple of games where he threw 2 or more interceptions, but he had only 3 in 354 attempts in 2019. Lawrence had 4 interceptions in 397 attempts his freshman season, 8 in 407 attmpts in 2019, and 5 in 334 attempts this season. Accuracy and mechanics play a big part in this, but so does reading the D and decision making. The QB or QBs in this group who have the most problems seeing the field, reading Ds, and have the worst accuracy will have the most problem with that in the NFL. The small details/polish in playing the QB position, mental processing/decision making, accuracy, and poise are the most important factors to me. Running ability and athleticism are less important. While I'd love to have a QB who can run the ball as it gives the D something else to think about, I'd settle for a QB who runs like Aaron Rodgers does, only when the field is wide open in front of him and he can pick up a first down or big yardage. I can live without those two things if absolutely necessary. All that is really important to me in that regard (running and athleticism) is if the QB is mobile and elusive and can avoid the rush and keep plays alive. My only real concern with Wilson and whether he can take the pounding in the NFL. He needs to add some bulk. He will need to forget about running with the ball unless it's a situation like with Aaron Rodgers where all the D players are 30 yards downfield or off to the side, and he has an easy clear 10-20 yards. He probably will have to learn to temper his aggressiveness somewhat in the NFL as well. DBs in the NFL are faster and better. Hopefully, he will learn quickly in practice and preseason, and get his interceptions out of the way there, and learn to be more circumspect about when he can fit the ball into a tight window, and learn to better anticipate throws. If JD fixes our OL, his inability to take a pounding shouldn't be an issue. Lance is the rawest and has a lot of work to do, but he probably has the highest ceiling. Fields needs to fix his long delivery, inaccuracy issues on short passes, and needs to sense the pressure better then step up in the pocket, and look for his outlet receiver, rather than taking off and running. If he can fix those things, he may have a higher ceiling than Wilson. He can be a weapon running the ball, but his ability to read Ds and go thru his progressions is iffy, and that's a bigger concern to me that Wilson's ability to take a pounding. Lawrence needs to work on his accuracy and maybe a few other things, but he should be fine. Jones can't do much to improve his mobility. He is the least athletic of the group, but he could be successful in the right system with a very good OL. In terms of mental processing, reading Ds, and sound decision making Wilson and Jones are the best imo. Fields and Lance have the strongest arms, followed by Lawrence and Wilson, then Jones. Fields, Lance and Lawrence are the most athletic, with Fields and Lance being the best runners. Wilson and Jones are the most accurate.
See, I don't think fans who want Sam feel he'll morph into the NFL's #1 FQB. Not even close. In fact we don't think there's ANY QB alternative that will give the Jets the top FQB. Rookie QB? No thanks. Who really wants to start from zero AGAIN. Rookie seasons are a wash, red shirt, if they even play. Then there's the 2022 Sophomore Slump. Yay. No real hope until 2023, and that's only if JD picks the RIGHT QB, if there even is one. And that brings us back to Sam. Some fans hope Sam, in his 4th year, with a good HC, oline, TE, RB, and WRs can turn it around and play good enough for us to become competitive. NOW. Not 3 years from now. Add in all the great draft picks and we might have a really good team that knows how to use Sam to get the most outa him plus a franchise defense that wins games in December. We got within 15 minutes (twice) of a SB (SBs we could have won) with a QB that was not that good. If we can do it with Rex and Nacho, maybe we can do it again with Saleh and Sam. Only this time, WIN. All that being said, I think it's a foregone conclusion JD will probably go with a rookie QB. JD's mantra of Build Thru the Draft includes all positions, including the most important one. So the question isn't Sam or no Sam, it's does JD get his QB with the #2, or does he trade down a bit and get his man further down.
I definitely wanted Fitz back in 16 and Cousins in 18. I liked Allen and Mahomes/Watson though. I can't even imagine how badly that would have gone if the Jets signed Cousins. They really got lucky the Vikings stole him. Coming off a (10-6) season, I really wanted to see if Fitzpatrick could do it again. It seemed like he likely would not, due to his history of failure, but I would always wonder "What if?" if the Jets let him walk. Well, I don't have to wonder anymore.
You're well respected & rightfully so. Still disagree strongly about ZW but that aside LOL..We all have our hits & misses.
You sold me on a trade down and Mac Jones. Seriously, you articulated your points well. Still not sold but appreciate the breakdown.
Hmmmm.... https://www.profootballnetwork.com/sam-darnold-out-zach-wilson-in-as-new-york-jets-qb/ Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
I'm with ya, man. Trade down twice in round 1, get extra picks, and if you still think you need a QB look at Jones. The guy is a winner. Maybe use some of the extra picks on the OL, a concept foreign to former GM MacCagnan. We need more talent on this roster.
I still prefer staying at #2 and taking Wilson. I think if they pass on him it's going to be "shades of Mahomes" all over again. But a trade back that produces a few extra prime picks and Mac Jones wouldn't be the worst thing. That said, trading back could backfire and allow some other team to swoop in and grab Jones before they get to pick. To me that's a risk too big to take.
Yes we live in hypothetical. There might be 6 Qbs taken within the first 15 selection this year or maybe 3... who knows? In 2018, 4 QBs were selected top 10 and 1 QB dropped to 32. It really depend on the team desire and their evaluation of the Qbs.
Yes sir! I am in a good spot as a fan though, because I do want Zach Wilson, but I also would support Douglas if he truly wants to roll with Sam and build around him. I'd support drafting Fields or Lance too. Whatever they decide, as long as they are all on the same page, I will be happy. I just feel it is best to start fresh at QB. We will see.
This has been pointed out before by others, but it bears repeating: It wasn't exactly the same WR starters for every game, but close enough. Flacco managed to find and hit Mims more than Sam ever did. I may be mistaken, but think that's true for Perriman as well. I think Sam mostly threw to Crowder and Herndon.
Whatever. It is starting to look like Douglas will take Wilson (Flacco not resigned). Not the smartest scenario in my book (poor value compared to trading down) , but reasonable minds can differ. Next question is if Wilson is drafted what about Sam? I say keep Sam. If Wilson tears up his knee in camp or during season, Sam is better than Morgan or retread backup. I also would not be surprised if they draft Wilson but play Sam to start the season (until Wilson is ready). Both Sam and Sanchez started day 1, so draw your own conclusions. Brady, Montana, Rodgers, and Marino all waited on bench for at least a half of season before thrown into action.(not saying Wilson will be that good).
Yep...this 100%. No doubt Flacco outperformed Sam last year....the offense actually looked like it was somewhat competent when Flacco was under center, vis a vis how it looked with Sam. Amazing how an improvement at the QB position can make EVERYONE on that side of the ball look better....the OL, the WRs, etc.
