I'm not sure how the KC game was of "no significance". Its a playoff game after all. Look, I watched Peyton play as well and IMO great QB play comes in many forms. A guy can go without making many great plays for a while, but then make a great throw when it counts to set up for a winning FG, stat sheets be damned. Did Peyton make a lot of key plays en route to that SB win? Sure. He just wasn't the Manning we see in the regular season every year. He never is in the postseason. I think he really feels the pressure. My only issue with your comments was as to whether Peyton "carried" his team. That couldn't be any further from the truth.
I have thought the same thing but Favre throwing and backing up has I believe saved him innumerable injuries because he doesn't plant and eventually get nailed, he throws on the move so much. When he takes a sack he is rarely all spread out and splattered. One mechanic he has in spades is a lightening fast release.
Of course he takes a huge step forward all SB winning QBs do. When the Packers beat the Patriots Howard had something like 240 return yards, just a monster game. Favre is the only winning QB in SB history to have 3 TDs and not win MVP (2 passing and a rush) so he didn't exactly have a bad game. No way is Brady in contention (Manning, yes). No Brady did not throw six picks but the D held the Rams to 17 points and Brady threw for 145 yards or so. The packers gave up 8 straight scores and there was no way to stay in the game unless the Packers matched them score for score and everybody in the house knew it was pass. By the way 2 or 3 of the picks were tipped passes because the line was collapsing on top of him. Brady has had one monster year and another excellent year and that is about it except he is blessed with talent all around him. Put Randy Moss or Jerry Rice with Manning when he won, Favre in the late 90s or Marino circa 84-6 and the record would be a hell of a lot higher than 50. Marino had a great team they just ran into the SF juggernaut. I can understand Marino, Manning and maybe Montana being argued as better but I can't see anyone else. QBs pass. Just handing the ball off doesn't get it. I loved Starr as a boy but he is not in the same league and neither is Graham with these modern passers and for many reasons these men and the teams they played on are not competitive today. I am ok with that, they are the foundation. A few players transcend, Unitas for one and I don't mean to pick on The Babe but if you could clone a ballplayer 8x to play every position a team of nothing but Ruths would win 150 games a year as would Walter Johnson--even today IMO. I think we are just going to have to have a friendly disagreement on Favre's place in history.
Just curious where you heard this and not trying to argue but my take on it was from day one he liked the GM a lot. Coming from a small town the traffic where you guys live scares the shit out of me but to play in NY? Wow.
Good, solid post right here. And you're right about Favre's 6 INT game. Several balls were tipped. People who only look at the stat sheet see the 6 picks and think he was absolutely horrible. Not true at all. Sure he had 2 or 3 picks he's at fault for, but the tipped passes and a miscommunication with Bill Schroeder (which was not uncommon with Bill) led to several of those INTs. I'm still laughing about this comment from the previous page. LOL
Only problem with your post is Brady didn't have all that talent around him until last year and has been great in the playoffs. He had outstanding games against both Philadelphia and the Panthers in SB games. He was outright stellar in the playoffs in the years NE won. Favre in 22 playoff games has 39TD's and 28 INT's Brady in 17 playoff games has 26 TD's and 12 INT well under a 2 to 1 ratio. Brady also has 14 playoff wins in his 17 playoff games. Favre has 12 in his 22 playoff games. Brady is a first ballot HOF lock if he never plays another game. I don't think he's the skilled thrower that Manning is but that's splitting hairs. He is clearly the best of his generation at the position and unfortunately is in the argument. I didn't see Graham play and since their isn't much video tape no way to comment. In Starrs era there were two guys Jurgenson and Namath who along with Dan Marino where the best pure throwers of the ball I ever saw and Bradshaw would be right in that mix. There is no question those guys could play in this era and throw the ball with any modern QB. I'm not putting them in the argument as greatest QB's because they didn't have the statistical careers but could they play today at a high level based on skill set? No question what so ever. Unitas would have been an absolute stud in this era and I beleive Starr would have been an outstanding WC QB in today's game. He was as smart as they come and certainly could throw the ball with enough velocity and range to compete with guys like Pennington, Rivers and Brees. The fact that he rarely had to doesn't take away his leadership on the field and his ability to make plays when needed which he did all the time. I don't discount Marino because he played on less than spectacular teams during periods where there were some great teams, I wouldn't discount Starr for playing on a great team that didn't need to throw very much.
The NE teams were gifted every year on the D side of the ball and that allows Brady a lot of time on the field. Does Brady go to the HOF? Sure, I just don't see him sniffing anywhere near the best of all time. Plug Manning, Favre, Marino or Montana into the NE teams and some of those QBs would have 4 SBs and they would not have looked like deer in the headlights last Feb. Bart Starr was a boyhood hero but the facts are that he was not able to carry the team in the latter years when they were struggling. Favre has carried the offense in GB more times than I can count. Starr was blessed with the most dominant team and coach of their time around him. Unitas was really something--a pure quarterback in Converse hightops and a flat-top haircut.
Interesting posts - Brady doesn't throw 6 INTs vs Rams. That SB is where Bellicheat gets the rep of being a great defensive game planner although he exhibited that trait in Cleveland/and NYG. Both Ty Law (INT - TD) Vinatieri wins that game, with clutch kicks in 2nd half where serious doubt as to whether St Louis gould be stopped. (and Brady was faltering, although he drives at end) Hard to prove but if the SB goes to OT Rams win. Brady's most impressive year is 10-6 campaign. He threw his 3rd most completions and 2nd most Attempts. Of course they get smoked by broncos in Divisional. Last year skews stats. His comp rate is a little higher, but everything else is much higher . He throws 75 more completions than his previous 5 year average. About 4 more completions per game doesnt sound like much but with Moss it presents a opportunity to complete 16 more TDs than previous 5 yr average. He actually doubles that from 25 to 50. And decreases his INT rate almost in half. What are the factors? Possibly the weakest AFC East in a long time? A weaker AFC Conference? Jets still installing 3-4 w/ less than adequate personnel? This is what bothers me about Brady- similar problem I have had with Montana (but I am changing view on Montana as I get older and become more appreciative of what the 49ers were in terms of organization). 1) Very solid NE Defenses from 2000 - 2008 (Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison etal names change talent is the same). Only Bucs and Ravens have similar defensive success and reputations over an extended period. Favre played 16 years and the defenses went through hill and valleys- Marino never had the luxury. Montana did (people forget that SF had a great defense especially with Lott and Fred Dean). 2) NYG v NE SB presents issue with Brady when pressed (with great team around him) and lack of running game (more responsibility on him) even when NE DEF plays well and stops basically same NYG run game as this year. 3) Pre SB boast, result is the opposite of namath. He has to pay the price for that. Personally I do not want to see Favre throw more than 35 Attempts- sorry thats just it. Over 35 he is dangerous whereas under 35 he is under control and magic. As far as being able to bring teams back from 2+ scores down, I am doubtful of any QBs ability to do that unless Defense is #1-#4 rank. Oddly Jeff Garcia has done it 2x in 2 weeks. Yes Favre has 40+ comebacks but they were generally close games in 4th quarter or OT, or at least I don't remember any where he came back from serious deficit. Favre has made a very good living at scoring first and scoring often especially in the first half of a game and working a game plan successfully including audibling to a defenses weakness. He can kill the momentum of any opponent with accurate passing. To that extent he may be a front runner - but that is a good thing. Can he bring a team back from 2+? maybe I d rather not see it happen. Sometimes you should pull on Supermans cape and You should spit into wind (just duck) and if you can tear the mask off of the Lone Ranger- go for it
One major difference in many of those playoff games was that the Pats were a #1 seed in most of Brady's playoff games. They were a #2 seed in 2001. Makes a big difference. Favre has a lot more games in the postseason of playing teams that were simply the better teams, and several other games in which they were about equal. Pick 'em type of games. Anyways, like I said earlier....Brett has been disappointing in the postseason over the 2nd half of his career. In the 90s he was 9-5 with 25 TDs and 11 INTs. Not bad considering they had two 9-7 WC teams in there, and faced an awesome Dallas team 3 years in a row. They won at least 1 playoff game per year until 1998. Us packers fans who recall that game certainly feel jobbed by the non call on the jerry rice fumble.....but that's another story. You'll see that Brady's worst postseason games came when his teams weren't #1 or 2 seeds as well. Its not coincidence why this happens. In fact, it happens with all QBs.
In the 4th the greatest comeback I ever remember was 13 points or so for Favre. I think there were a few games where he was 20 plus behind but it was whittled down by the 4th. 27-35 attempts is perfect for Farve. After 40 the run game is nil and they are hanging on at best and he goes into that win with the poorer team or lose by 30 mentality ala the Rams game in circa 01'.
Jobbed? Your too kind. I was in a funk for two weeks on that one. After that call I was not thinking clearly and I wanted that ref's head--On a platter, dripping red and I am still miffed 10 years on. I know, its only a game but damn...
I'm still mistified by that obvious blown call. Say what you want about the 49ers Super Bowl that year (Youngs only ring), but I'm sorry, it should of been GB in that Super Bowl, not the niners. That blown call on the fumble that would of ended the game still lingers hard on all packer fans that remember watching that game, thinking we had just punched our way into the superbowl.
I think you got it a bit twisted here. SF's SB win under Young was in 1994. The Rice fumble vs. GB was after the 1998 season. SF beat GB on the last second TD to Owens (while Sharper watched it all happen). SF then lost to the Falcons, who went on to beat the Vikes at the Metrodome in one of my most favorite games ever.
Huh? Try getting the SNY channel. His weekly press conference is aired every wednesday afternoon. The media hangs on his every word.
Very good point, when Favre gets sacked, he normally doesn't seem to be in an awkward position. I mean, rather than being stiff and legs locked and everything, he is in a more athletic position (though not mechanically correct for a QB) and can brace himself a bit. Also, the quick release has a lot to do with it as he simply gets rid of the ball before he can get hit. But the quick release is actually more old Favre (he always had it, but he relies on it more now), back in his younger days, Favre got hit and sacked a lot (kind of like Big Ben) as he would keep plays alive. As he got older, he learned how to make quicker reads on his throws and how to avoid hits and still keep plays a live and be a successful QB. Favre was also pretty quick in his younger days, heck Southern Miss wanted him to be a defensive back, but now Favre can still move, he just can't run, and so he makes up for that with quicker reads and quicker throws. It's why he excelled in the 5 WR formation last year in GB. With 5 wide you are not looking to throw deep, the QB is looking for a mismatched WR who can take off and run with the ball, and Favre is very good at that.
