Take this for what it's worth, Payton Manning may be the most consistently accurate deep ball passer to every play the game. His stats aren't nice they are sick. I think Marino was only in 1 SB his rookie year and lost to another QB who was better than Favre.
I hate when people take every word so literal. yes he had a few good teams, his best team he led to the SB where he lost against the best QB of all time and one of the best teams of all time. those aren't ridiculous arguments. If they were then a guy like Steve Young would have won more than 1 SB w/ the dynasty he inherited. dallas would have ben able to win w/ Steve Buerlein but they weren't. NE would have been able to win in 2000 w/ Bledsoe but they weren't able to. vs. SF: 11-15, 79 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT vs. Car: 19-29, 292 yds, 2 TDs 1 INT vs. NE: 14-27, 246 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INT I'm not trying to miniomize what he did but he wasn't great in the '96 postseason and w/o the contributions of Desmond Howard who knows? marino never had a Desmond Howard or a Reggie White. it's funny how you guys always talk stats then when he dosn't have the #s you don't. I know he was good in the '96 postseason but he didn't carry GB, he didn't have to. marino had to carry Miami and he carrid them as far as he could. No player can do it by himself but a top QB can be the difference maker. NE was 5-11 in 2000 and started 0-2 in '01 before Brady stepped on the field and he instantly made them a SB team. Not many, if any, other QBs could have won a SB w/ that team in 2001. So he had to put up great fantasy #s to impress you? Turning around a sinking ship and winning w/ Troy brown as his top WR and Antowain Smith as his #1 RB wasn't enough? I have a great article about the "great" Pats D saved on my home computer, I'll post it later. Like SUPER BOWL XXXVIII against Carolina? In the '81 Title Game the SF D gave up 27 pts, Montanba led them to the winning TD in the final minute. When exactly has Favre done it? against Seattle in the WC rd? is that as impressive as the title game or SB? You cannot compare physial gifts of players from different eras as we evolve the athletes get bigger, stronger, faster w/ every generation. You compare those players w/ players from their era and Starr was better in his era than Favre in his. If we are using physical ability then I'll take Vinny Testavedre, there has never been a more physically gifetd QB than Vinny but it's what you do w/ the gifts that counts. That si suck a silly argument, of course he couldn't play today. Babe Ruth couldn't play today either does that mean he's not the greatest baseball player of all time? Did you not finish the sentence I posted? There was more to it than "Babe Ruth struck out alot" but you convienently didn't include that.
I agree on Peyton but based ont he criteria of the Favre backers Peyton should be ahead b/c he has better #s and also has a SB. So you think the '84 Dolphins would have betane the '84 Niners if they had Brett Favre at QB?
If Favre was of age to play on that roster (obviously, this is 8 years prior to him behing in the NFL or whatever) then yes, I think so. 84 niners were beasts, but #4 has the type of style that can single handidly lift a team to a win. Add that with his attitude, and you just never know. Favre may take a lot of risks, and it oculd be the game they work in, he gets 4 or 5 TD's, maybe 1 int, and Dolphins win a tight one. Of course, it can go the other way, and #4 can cost them the title. I just think over the course of a career, #4 would of got a ring anywhere he played so long as the team commited to him to start. I am very gald it was as a packer, but I do think #4, in his prime, would of got a SB ring for some team. As for better numbers: The numbers aren't really better yet. You start looking at career averages, and they are still very close, and Favre has many more years notched on the belt then Manning does at maintaining those numbers. As Manning ages, lets see if he can continue the success. Harrison's career is almost over. In fact, his whole offense is starting to show age a bit, and once Manning loses the players around him, can he maintain the success? Brett had to do that his entire career.
I had forgotten about Manning doing that to his O line. Not good. Peyton's great, but wow what a flop he was in so many postseasons. He's lucky the Colts D found a groove before the 2006 postseason. He should thank his stars for Bob Sanders, because Peyton did not play well in that postseason.
Anyway, he's one of the best to play the game ever. Fact. Incapable of dispute. He was my favorite player not on the Jets previously for a long time, and that makes this ride so much sweeter. I'm glad he's here and I wouldn't mind having him around for a while longer. Fuck Yeah!
Peyton is good, but I've always felt his stats are a bit inflated for a few reasons. First of all, he plays at least 9 games per year in a dome. No rain. No snow. No wind. Much easier to put up big numbers. If he or Marino played more games in the north like Favre or Brady do, they'd see some significant drops in their totals. Marino wouldn't have 400 TD passes. I guarantee you that much. Having said that, I still think Dan's 48 TD passes is WAY more impressive than Peyton's 49 and Tom's 50. QBs don't play each other. If they did, Favre would have won by a blowout over Elway. John had a chance to ice the game for Denver when Antonio Freeman fumbled a kickoff. Ya know what Elway did? He threw a pick in the endzone. Way to go John! Keep adding to your record for the most INTs in super bowl history!!
1) Once again.....another false statement. Who is saying this? Its a close argument and I guess its a matter of preference. Favre was a big time postseason QB for the first half of his career. No doubt he had some major flops in the 2nd half, but at least he did put up a lot of great performances. Peyton just had one bad game after another, and these were on some really good teams. I don't expect a QB to carry a team like you do with your ridiculous expectations, but I sure don't expect Peyton to flop like he has over the years. 2) No. 49ers if I recall correctly had the #1 offense and defense. Nobody was beating that team.
if he has that type of talent how come he has never done that? He lost to a less talented Denver team in '98 and never made the SB again. Fvare is great, Marino is great but both needed some help. Favre got more and won, Marino didn't and never won. 1)maybe YOU didn't say it but alot of the favre backers have. You don't have to sell me on Manning being overrated, I agree w/ you and I rate Favre ahead of him. I'm just saying going by the criteria alot of the Favre fans have mentioned then Manning would come out on top. That '84 Niner team was amazing, maybe the best ever. Certainly on the short list for best ever.
1) What?! Your words are all we have!!! Don't type foolish comments if you don't want them to be identified for what they are. Favre didn't lose to Elway. Michael Vick could have led that team to a SB win over GB. Ground game and a blitz package GB had never seen and couldn't adjust to are what won the game for Denver. They won in spite of Elway, not because of him. 2) Those are great numbers. They're very similar to Favre's last 3 games as a Jet, and YOU of all people has been saying that Brett has played great in recent weeks. LOL @ you contradicting yourself! 3) Right!! Guys who "carry" their teams don't win Super Bowls!! They need help!! So in other words, your attempts to minimize Brett's contributions to his SB title are futile. He did what most other QBs do en route to winning a title. He played great AND got help from his teammates. DUHH!!
1) It wasn't all Tom. What was the final score of that SB.....20-17? How many teams held the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points? Great drive by Brady at the end of the game, but that was an awesome gameplan by Belichick and incredible execution by the players on D. 2) No. You misinterpret my comments. Its not that I wasn't impressed with Tom. Its just that he was being put in the greatest QB ever conversations and he was only putting up good, but not great numbers in the regular season. I wanted to see if he could really engineer a high powered offense like the greats he was being compared to. Why do you act as if this is too much to ask of him or any other great QB? Having said that.....those pats teams were carried by defense for years. Without a defense, Brady would have been another Marino or Elway of the 80s. 3) That's one game......and granted it was a big one. I was speaking in terms of an entire season. The pats had the #2 defense in the league the year they beat Philly in the SB. 4) Again......that was one game. SF had the #2 defense that year, and minus the strike season of 1982, Joe never played on a SF team that didn't have a top 10 defense. In fact, almost every one of their defenses was top 5. You getting the point yet? It should be crystal clear to most people..... 5) I can compare and I did. Starr had more titles than Unitas. Does that make him better than John? Hell no! Starr was a great winner and a great leader, but based on talent and athleticism Starr was not great. There really isn't an argument here. Please stop. 6) LOL!! Vinny?!! Damn, you have to be kidding! He had a strong arm and that's it. 7) Babe Ruth could play in today's game. He could play in any era.
Manning carried his team to the SB against a great NE team in 06 after the D was chewed up and spit out. Manning is 7 and 7 in the post season Favre is 12 and 10. Both have one ring.
Agree about the dome and the inflated numbers of playing in good weather. Elway was a shadow of himself in both of those SB.
Good, a non biased person actually feels that Favre is better then Manning. God, i've been waiting years for someone to say this. For all of hte bashing of favre's last 10 playoff games, at least in those games he has a 4 or 5 games where he played VERY WELL. They didn't always win, of course. Take the loss to philly at philly: 99% of that game, Favre was lights out. He had the OT int that eventually led to the loss, but you can hardly pin that loss on #4. The game was over, and TEAM didn't come through (specifically, 4th and 26). Last year against Seattle, Favre again was stellar. Against the giants? Average. Not a horrible game, but clearly not good either. Cold seemed to really get to him, and as a Favre fan we were not use to seeing that bother him. But hey, age has to catch up to you at some point. He played bad against atlanta, and minnesota at home as well this century. In other words: He's been a 50/50 QB in the playoffs this century, while in the 90's he seemed to always be money, it was just a question if the D was going to do enough to allow them to win (or int he case of the loss to elway, the coaching staff actually trying to win the game, instead of "not lose" the game)
The same defense that got Manning TOO the AFC championship game after back to back horrible performances by manning. And, 1st half against NE, Manning was just as bad again. Defense just was worse. Second half? Manning doesn't make that big comeback nad win if the defense doesn't start getting stops. I'll give manning credit for that half, but that is one good half of football by him in the entire SB run. ONE. Not even a complete game, just one half. Yes, Peyton is 7-7 in the playoffs, compared to #4 who is 12-10, however, you need to look at mannings playoff stats. The man just hasn't played very well on the biggest stage more then a couple games in his career, while Favre has done so many a time, including in losing efforts.
1)That NE team doesn't even make the playoffs w/o Brady. 2)#s are part of it, he elevated a sinking ship to become a dynasty. He had GOOD #s. he was like the Derek Jeter of the NFL- really good #s but not flashy and wins while manning was the ARod- great fantasy #s but chokes when it matters. 3)You said he never did it when in fact he did it on the biggest stage against a D that gave up 35 points total in 3 NFC playoff games he led NE to 32 and the win in a back and forth game. 4)again you ssaid he never did it and he did so against a great Dallas team in the NFC Title Game. The only time favre ever did it was in the WC rd against Seattle. 5)Did I say Starr was better than Unitas? He wasn't but Uniats, Starr, Graham, any of these guys couldn't compete in today's game athletically. You compare them w/ their era, average QBs don't win as much as Starr and Graham won. 6) Vinny had an incredible arm and could move w/ his feet. he was MUCH more athletically gifted than Favre, maybe there have been guys as gifted but none more gifted. 7) No he couldn't, he's too fat and slow for this era but he dominated his era like no one else wich is why he is the greatest and 40 years from now Favre and his contemporaries won't be considered as athletic as those players and 2 peop[le will have the same argument on their version of a messgae board. That NE team wasn't great, they didn't even earn a 1st rd bye. Brady carried them that far. The D choked again in a big spot but this time Brady didn't have the answer. Manning had ONE great half, the rest of that postseason he was along for the ride and it was a complete joke that he won MVP of the SB.
There isn't a person who posts on this board who isn't biased. Saying they aren't doesn't change your bias and help your argument. Favre's greatest legacy is his longevity. His peak performance while outstanding doesn't put him ahead or behind others. Fortunately I got a chance to see most of the greats including Starr who was a great QB. I have no problem with Favre going to the HOF but for my money with one season or one game on the line and I could pick any guy from any era. Favre isn't the guy and isn't one of the first 5 that come to mind. It wouldn't be Payton Manning either or Tom Brady.
what the hell are you talking about? peyton beat the pats because of a strong running game and a defense that decided to actually play football in the 2nd half. yes, he made a lot of great throws in that game like great QBs do, but he certainly didn't "carry" them. Not with the deficit they were facing to start the 3rd quarter. peyton threw more INTs than TDs in that postseason. Don't believe me? Go look it up.
I watched every game of the playoffs in 06. Manning played a poor game of no signifigance against KC, had a lousy stat game but outright killed Baltimore who had both safties playing 20 yards off the LOS by the 2nd half of that game which allowed them to run all over Baltimore because even though they pummelled Manning all game he was still making sick throws that backed them up out of respect. He was dominating and magnificant against the Pats. For a Favre fan you sure over rate INT's as part of your analysis.
The most frustrating part about debating you is that you take comments out of their proper context and tend to go off on tangents. Point #s 3 and 4 are not about one game. I was speaking of Brady and Montana in terms of an entire season or more with a bad D. Most great QBs have to deal with that in multiple seasons. Brady and Montana never have. Brady had a couple of average or slightly above average defenses, but Joe never did. My entire point is about putting up big numbers for a full season under the pressure of having to score a lot to win on a weekly basis. Again......Brady had a lot of good but not great seasons until last year. I wasn't completely convinced of his greatness until he put up elite QB type of numbers.
