You keep ignoring what I have been saying: Chan Gailey made a respectable QB out of Ryan Fitzpatrick without having to work with that 7th rounder with extended period of time. (I'm not even going to go through Roethlisberger case.) If I didn't point this to you yet, Fitzpatrick had more TDs, with more completed passes, and thus higher completion ratio and about 270 yards shorter total yardage than Sanchez did while playing only 13 games as starter last year. If Schotty defenders' claim that Schottenheimer never had a fair shake with his QBs is true, then just what the hell is going up there in Buffalo? Unlike Chan Gailey (even though I consider him a dumb fuck, I give him credit where it is due), who could rank his offense well within top 10 once given enough talents available, Schottenheimer consistently failed to produce anything but mediocre shit, even with all the talent he had around. Just why is it so hard to accept that Schottenheimer is but a mediocre offensive mind? If he is indeed brilliant, how does that show on the field? Stat sheet? offensive performance? Even during the 32-3 thrashing of Jacksonville, it was more of the defense completely ass-raping the Jacksonville offense (with 4 picks and whatnot) than Jets offense setting the Jacksonville D on fire. Look. I don't hate Schottenheimer. True, I do scream out of frustration here and there, but in the end I want to see this offense succeed. If what I've seen from the past few seasons are any indication, you won't see that while Schottenheimer leading the offensive crew. Now what is the excuse of Schottenheimer miserably failing with just about every fucking QB he had his hands on with for the entire duration of his career as OC?
You're assuming Fitzpatrick isn't a great-on-the-verge-of-elite QB. I don't make that assumption. I do make the assumption that Sanchez is an average QB with the potential to be great if he could just get his head in the game. Neither player is a product of his coaching. He simply is who he is. Why did Pennington, Clemens, and Favre all also fail here? Any number of reasons. Chad had a habit of having one awful year (usually due to injury) followed by one spectacular one. Clemens? Well, I don't think anyone is going to argue he was ever successful or could be. Favre? A wildcard, but he was playing here on short notice, in a system he couldn't grasp, on a team he had no desire to play for. Are any of those things Schotty's fault? Not really. Could he have worked around them? Certainly. Should he have? I don't know. Would it have made a difference, or made things worse (taking himself out of his own comfort zone). Sanchez was brought in for Schotty to mold. Unfortunately for everyone involved, it appears he is more solid iron than clay. Again, I'm not 100% pro-Schottenheimer. I yell at the tv all game too. I'm just concerned that all the blame directed at him completely ignores bigger problems we have on offense, namely the guy behind center, and everyone who isn't the center or has an apostrophe in their name.
1. You speak as if QB problem is a separate entity from OC problem. They are not. (Ok... Favre throwing the ill-advised pass at the tail end of NFCCG, that's a QB problem, but the problem Sanchez has? I do NOT think that's entirely on Mark.) 2. On Fitzpatrick: His draft status, and his career numbers before his ascension says otherwise. I am more inclined to believe that Chan Gailey brought the best out of Fitzpatrick - not the other way around. (This IS the focal point you keep failing to acknowledge. It took Gailey less then one season to identify the talent he had, maximize the offensive schemes to maximize the talent he had available, and get a result out of his QB. Sure, Fitzpatrick was around the league for a few years, but last year was his first year with the Bills, and also he became the starting QB for the first time in his career as well - meaning, he was about as green as he could be in Chan Gailey's offensive system. How about Schotty? Did he maximize ANY of the QB talent he had at hand???????) Or let's change the roles here. Do you honestly think this Fitzpatrick guy had a chance in HELL to rise to the starting QB status if Schottenheimer was the HC of the Bills? *In the meantime, I believe that, if Gailey was the OC of the Jets, we'd be seeing much more production out of the offensive crew - he has shown he could produce once he had enough talent around him, like in '06 when he was with the Steelers.) 3. Like I said in other postings, I have decided to stop bitching about the unimaginative routes and play designs. JUST WHERE THE FUCK HAS THE PRODUCTION BEEN THE PAST HALF DECADE???? If you keep rewarding mediocrity, that's what you get served. 4. Disclaimer: This reply does NOT mean Jets played well in other aspect. The defense was gashed for 200+ yards on the ground - you don't get to playoff with that kind of steaming pile of dog shit, let alone AFCGG or Super Bowl. Or the special team - if you turn the ball over on Kickoff (after the other team scored) you are making it that harder for the team to win. Just this thread is about Schottenheimer, which is why I am devoting this post to that. It's simple as that.
Points very well considered and made. It all too often seems like Sanchez lacks consistent mental focus which in turn impairs his ability to see the whole field well, make quick and sound decisions and execute with sharpness/precision UNLESS he is in comeback mode when we then typically see the Sanchez we see as so promising and full of special, if not elite, potential. I do blame Schotty for not being able to do a better job of mitigating what appear to be serious concentration issues for Sanchez but I feel more of the overall blame lies with Sanchez. Schotty might better serve/address Mark's lapses of attention by installing more hurry up offensive packages as well as sticking with plays that work until they don't but in the end it is up to Sanchez to execute plays and even on his good days it seems like there are two different Marks out there.
My guess would be Rex is the one preventing offense from running hurryup whenever they want because it would put extra pressure on Jets D. Sanchez seems to check down a lot so there's a lot of playcalls that we aren't seeing. It's possible the same play that works is called again & Sanchez plays it safe the next time.
The fact is that Ryan plays the percentages that he thinks work for the WHOLE team. We see the Jets go to hurry up when the game situation dictates, not as a standard approach for the O geared to Sanchez's limitations. If the game situation does not require, then the CS will pursue an offensive strategy that complements the D, meaning NOT one where the O minimizes their TOP in order to rush the D back out onto the field. Otherwise put, these frequent calls to use hurry up offense much more often are really not only a waste of time (since imo that is not going to happen as long as Ryan is HC) but more importantly ignores the overall concerns about the offensive TOP and keeping the D fresh.
When you let teams hang around they will beat even a good defense. The Jets have become accustomed to a very conservative first half offensive game plan that allows almost all of their opponents to stay in the game with them until the third quarter. Not surprisingly they lose games they shouldn't because after that conservative first half game plan the offense can never get rolling. They lose games because the opposing offense suddenly kicks into gear in the second half and runs way from them. They lose games because the defense has an off game and the offense never catches up. You need to play aggressively on both sides of the ball if you want to be a top team. You can't have one side laying down early and expect to get to 12+ wins and a home game in the playoffs.
Ryan's philosophy, if he really wants to give away the first half and win it in the second, hasn't worked anywhere but Baltimore in 2000 and Tampa in 2002. If he really thinks he can build a defense to compare to those two then maybe he's on solid ground. However neither of those teams got there before or has gotten there since. He'd be better off trying to build a great team on both sides of the ball. New England, Pittsburgh, NY Giants, Green Bay, these are the kind of teams that have won the vast majority of titles in this decade and they've been really good both ways.
What would theoretically place more pressure on our D: too many three & out offensive series or a successfully executed hurry-up offensive series? The other obvious benefit to implementing more hurry-up when our offense has the ball would be less pressure on our somewhat beleaguered offensive line since the hurry-up typically weakens opposing defenses in general and their pass rushing in particular due to fatigue, blocking opponents' ability to insert substitution packages (more fatigue) and the confusion/mayhem hurry-up offenses so often create. This might also mitigate our continuing red zone impotence by creating more scoring opportunities outside the redzone due to the advantages offered by hurry-up packages. I don't profess this to be the true solution to all our problems on offense but if time of possession is the primary concern of the CS in the decision on whether or not to run the hurry-up, we have way too many first-half three and outs to not justify giving it at least a shot from time to time, particularly when our offense IS struggling to a.) pass the ball, b.) run the ball, c.) maintain drives, and, d.) protect Sanchez.
Did we not trade up to draft a QB at number 5? We brought in Plax, Edwards, LT, Santonio...are those not the moves of a team looking to build a great offense?
I'm not failing to acknowledge anything. Is the Buffalo situation all about Gailey? Possibly. I don't think it is, and I recall hearing that people believed Fitzpatrick had the talent to be great but wasn't polished enough. Do I think Fitzpatrick could have risen to his current status under different circumstances? I have no idea. But if you had told me years ago that some 6th round kid could take over for Drew Bledsoe and win a Super Bowl I'd have laughed you off the board. Your last point highlights 2 things. 1) They scored enough points to win a reasonable game on Sunday. Schotty deserves some credit for that. Sanchez himself left at least 3 (and more likely 7) points on the field thanks to his INT. You can't remove the overall situation simply because it doesn't conform to your argument. The game was reasonably coached on the offensive side. 2) I'm not absolving Schottenheimer's bad playcalling. I've often expressed how frustrated it makes me. Again though, I'm not convinced that our problems aren't larger than Schottenheimer, and I fear winding up replacing him with another Hackett, which I'm sure any reasonable fan would admit would be worse. As I talked about a few pages back, part of the issue with Schottenheimer teaching Sanchez is Mark's inablity to carry lessons forward. How many times have we heard Schotty publicly talk about Sanchez learning to throw the ball away when a play breaks down, or to baseball slide rather than dive head-first? The kid doesn't listen. No coach is going to fix that. Yes, Schotty needs to adjust more. I completely agree with the bashers there. But Sanchez has to get his head on right and learn how to stop making the same dumb mistakes over and over again. I have nothing to add to this post, but I wanted to quote it because it was spot on. I agree. This team plays way too laid back in the first half, especially the offense. That's Rex though. We defer all of the time, rather than go for the quick strike and let the D defend a lead. Look what happened when we broke that mold. I can't stand conservativism. You play conservative when you have a big lead, if at all (personally I'm of the Belichick school of "step on their necks" myself). Strike hard, strike fast, strike early, strike often. That's how Indy and New England have been dominating for years. Give the D a big enough lead and suddenly it's not so risky to overcommit to a pass rush.
The Jets haven't followed up on the personnel moves with a systemic change to enable a great offense. Ryan wants ground and pound although the personnel seems to not fit that desire at the moment. Schotty wants a "brilliant" offense that looks conceptually cool but he hasn't been able to create enough production around that offense to make it actually good. This is not just a production issue from the players either. The quality control on offense is horrendous. The Jets routinely discover weaknesses in the opposing defense and then go away from exploiting those for drives at a time, as if the objective of keeping the defense guessing is more important than the objective of rolling over it by whatever means are most effective and scoring points. Even when the opposing weakness is glaring, like the Raiders CB's being all backups, the Jets fail to exploit that weakness fully and profit from it. Schotty should have been looking at that secondary as the place the Jets were going to win the game, instead the Jets ran on first down 16 out of 31 plays before the last drive. If you look at his interleaving of plays on first down it is completely predictable with a back and forth pattern that is almost one for one. A couple of times he called two first down runs in a row. A couple of times he called two first down passes in a row, but basically he just went back and forth. A smart fourth grader could have picked up on what he was doing and caught up to him fairly soon. The Raiders defensive staff is smarter than a fourth grader. (There you got my once a decade compliment about the Raiders.) What's missing in the Jets offense is that they're not being evaluated on whether or not they score enough points to allow the Jets to win consistently. They're being evaluated based on the overall results and a lot of the weakness in the offensive system is being covered up by weak opponents and games where the defense wins it without a lot of help from the offense. In the last two years the Jets have had 4 convincing wins on offense. 4 games where the offense played so well that the Jets would have won the game even if the defense was off. Those 4 games are twice against Buffalo last year (28th ranked team on defense), once against Oakland in 2009 (23rd ranked defense) and once against Cincinnati in 2009 (Callahan was quality control for offense in the game and Cincinnati was playing for nothing.) When the Jets allow 21 points or more (the NFL average) they are 4-10 since the beginning of 2009 including the playoffs. Why are they so bad when the defense is not working well? Because the offense is not working well. In 2006 when the Jets offense was "rolling" they went 1-5 in games in which the opponent scored 21 points or more. For reference the Steelers are 6-7 when allowing 21 points or more from 2009 to today. The Ravens are 5-8. These are the teams the Jets are trying to compete with in a similar fashion. They aren't great offensive teams by any means but they're not DOA the way the Jets are when they give up a lot of points. This is not on Mark Sanchez. He doesn't have terrible games for the most part when the Jets defense is off, just like he didn't last Sunday. He wasn't even around in 2006. It's on an offensive staff that has no clue how to roll up points when you need them. When a weak sister shows up the staff can figure out what to do most of the time to score a lot of points. Other than that the jets are really flat on offense and it's killing the team's chances to compete at the highest level. That's on Brian Schottenheimer.
Very true. It drives me nuts when Sanchez takes off running and holding the ball in one hand as opposed to protecting it properly. I still have no idea whether Sanchez' mental errors are a function of stubborn arrogance, a lack of smarts or both.
You make so many really excellent points here. Well done (not that you need me to tell you). While I also hold BS accountable to a great extent, sudden momentum shifts during games caused by lapses/mistakes often influence final outcomes. BS' predictable and at times irrational play calling aside, I still feel that a meaningful portion of the blame still should fall on Sanchez' shoulders. Forget for a moment about interceptions or fumbles and simply look at the countless missed opportunities to sustain drives due to Mark's mistakes/failure to execute relatively simple plays. Its not always his fault naturally, and BS' predictable or stupid play calling clearly makes successful execution that much more challenging to our still developing QB but I find there are just too many times that Sanchez himself fails to see the open man and instead tries to force the ball to the receiver he's been staring down. He can be so accurate at times and off at others. Often in the same game. If, because of his youth and relative inexperience, the CS does not hold Sanchez accountable and places the brunt of the blame on BS, who am I to argue? In the end, however, I think they both share responsibility to varying degrees in our offense's lack of consistent performance.
Even with Favre Shotty couldn't couldn't produce a 300 yard passing game. He's simply inadequate - always has been, always will be. The problem is the talent on the offense is too great for it to suck enough to get Schotty fired
Okay, so I just read the targets so far this season, on thejetsblog. Mason is our most targeted WR. Holmes is our least targeted WR, by a target. Mason getting the most targets... Is this due to Schotty and play calling, or is this due to Sanchez? This is what I'm trying to understand. Holmes had two targets last game, only four targets the game prior. I truly don't understand why or how we're utilizing him so horrendously, when he is such a weapon. I don't buy that he can't get open, I don't buy that he's never open, as I've seen plays he's been standing there open, and IF that were the case, it's Schotty's responsibility to design some plays that get him open. Period. Other teams have significantly less talented, significantly slower playmakers, and they find ways to get them involved. I'm just sayin'. Are these unfair beliefs on my part?
And where is Tom Moore then in all this? Do you think BS is completely ignoring/stonewalling his suggestions/inputs? If so, you can be sure Rex would be hearing about it and action would be taken. I agree with you how frustrating it is to see all the weapons he have at our disposal not being put to effective use. Is BS to blame? Sure. Just how much of that blame should be placed exclusively on him is hard to say at this point as I think all our problems on offense do not begin and end with BS. Could he be the biggest reason? Maybe. But I don't believe he's the only reason.
Holmes is nursing a quad injury and has been since the season started. He's basically been a decoy the last few weeks, which is why Plaxico is drawing double-coverage. The Jet's offense so far this season outside the 4th quarter of the Cowboys game has been Sanchez to Keller and Tomlinson. That's going to have to change or we've got real problems.
