Perfectly said. If the players are playing to their potential and we still aren't scoring, then it's completely Schottenheimer's fault. If plays are breaking down on the lines, or on throws that Sanchez either telegraphs or underthrows, how is that the fault of the guy who isn't at all involved with the play? That's like saying Bart is responsible for Ware's pressure last week. I'm assuming you're a Pats fan from your name. While it's instinctual for me to want to despise you, it's nice to see that an outsider can view this intelligently, even if our own fanbase has to view it through rage-colored glasses. Exactly. There is ample evidence that Rex actually likes Schotty and approves of the job he does. Rex is outwardly complimentary directly to Schotty when the game is well-coached on offense. Rex has said in the past that he felt he would lose Schottenheimer but hoped he didn't. He could just as easily have said "If Brian finds another opportunity I wish him the best of luck" yet all he's ever done is publicly hope he doesn't lose him. The Schottenhater contingent simply concots conspiracy scenarios to support their assertions. Now I have no idea if there is or isn't some cronyism that allows Schottenheimer to stay. There could very well be and if Rex is ever fired without winning a Super Bowl I'm certain we'll find out if there was. For now though, all I can and all anyone should do, is take Rex at his word. Of all Jets coaches we've seen over the years, for that matter of all coaches period, Rex has never been anything but brutally honest (or at least honest from the perspective of speaking directly from his heart). To not take him at his word about Brian Schottenheimer is to call him a liar.
Rex has taken the Jets one game away from the Superbowl two years in a row. He's got the success & pedigree to leave the Jets and find a job. Why would he stay with the Jets if he had no input/control over the offensive game plan? Rex is definitely not shy/meek. If he wanted his offense to open it up more, there's no way Schotty is gonna tell him to STFU and remain offensive coordinator. Rex wants dominant defense & ground and pound offense. Changing the defensive coordinator would not change the defensive philosophy of the Jets. The Jets won't slow down with the exotic blitzes unless they can consistently generate a dominant pass rush with only the front seven. Changing the offensive coordinator won't move the Jets away from ground & pound. What would change the Jets offensive philosophy is replacing Sanchez with Manning, Brees, Brady, Rogers. As long as Sanchez keeps improving, the offense will open up more & then maybe REX will change his offensive philosophy. For most of this thread, it's amazing how little blame Rex & Sanchez get when the offense doesn't click.
I don't know if Ryan is a fan or not but it's not speculation about Tanny thinking very highly of Shotty.
In Rex's new book he goes into great detail about how Schottenheimer is one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the league. On more than one occasion he makes reference to how Schotty one day soon will be a head coach somewhere. In fact in one of the chapters he addresses his decision to keep him on the coaching staff when he took over the Jets. So, speculating on whether Rex likes Schotty is kind of fruitless; obviously Rex loves Schotty and wants him around.
So? That doesn't mean Tanny would veto Ryan if Ryan wanted to shitcan Schotty. And how does Tanny being high on Schotty somehow get twisted into Ryan NOT being high on Schotty?
It being the end of the week, and me getting bored of this subject, and unless someting really game changing on this subject occurs this weekend, which is unlikely I think we can all agree Rex is not going to get rid of Schotty now or in the foreseeable future. So we can safely move on to other subjects. That about covers it.
Just want to point out at the end of all this that the person most responsible for creating consistent high-level offensive play is the offensive coordinator. In the 5+ years that Brian Schottenheimer has been the Jet's offensive coordinator there has been one eleven game span when that occurred and Brett Favre was blowing off Schotty's system consistently during that span. There are many truths in this thread on both sides of the issue however the over-riding truth of the Jets the last 5 years is that Brian Schottenheimer is a mediocre offensive coordinator and probably the single element most responsible at this point for the Jet's inability to reach a Super Bowl over that span.
Welcome back ............. hope all is well. My take, there are many reasons for the Jets not making the Superbowl. In the AFCCG the offense has not been the factor holding it back. That said: The offense has is the one factor holding this team back as far as getting home field advantage. Much of the last 2 years is on Sanchez not being very good (terrible is a better word) for long stretches. This should be the year if we really see if it is Schotty or Sanchez or a mix of both........
I think Chad Pennington is the ultimate indictment of Brian Schottenheimer. Great seasons in 2002 and 2008. Very good season in 2004. Mediocre seasons in 2003 (injury), 2006 and 2007 (Schottenheimer). Yes, he was injured a lot, but if you look at the key indicators of high-level QB play they were dramatically lower under Brian Schottenheimer than anybody else he played for. The key indicator is yards per pass attempt and all of Schotty's QB's except for Brett Favre have been subpar in that regard. And Favre ultimately was low also but not during the eleven games he was healthy. Looking at Sanchez it is easy to say he was a pretty raw rookie handed the reins and that's why his numbers don't look so good after two years as the starter. On the other hand Chad Pennington's numbers didn't look very good under Schotty either. Kellen Clemens was a wipeout and Brett Favre basically ran his own playbook when he was being successful as Jet's QB. Brian Schottenheimer has not had a QB run his system to any level of real effectiveness in the 5 years that he has been Jet's offensive coordinator. That's why he's worked with so many QB's. The Jet's gave up on Chad Pennington when he was 31 because the offense just wasn't working. That's not a normal progression of events. Usually the offensive coordinator gets fired when the wheels fall off. Instead the Jets have been firing QB's.
Interesting argument that will likely be flamed to death very soon. lol I dunno if I buy that they were giving up on Pennington for that reason alone. I mean, between the injuries and the opportunity to bring in a pro-bowl hall of fame QB who had a great season the year before have got to factor into that overall scenario. The injuries for me are probably the most telling of those, and given how many more times he got hurt with the Dolphins helps me believe it. Not that I'm saying Schotty doesn't suck... :smile:
Completely disagree with you regarding the Chad years under Schotty. The Jets in 06 was a total JAG team and Pennington had at best a limited Pop gun for an arm. The O while statistically not good was substantially better than the below average talent especially considering Pennington couldn't make a throw outside the hash marks or up the field with anything on it in 06. The 06team had 4 and 12 talent and went to the playoffs. That team had a plan and executed it as best they could with the talent on board. 06 was by far Shottenheimers best showing with the Jets. 07 the OL was a mess, can't blame that on the OC. You also can't blame him for Clemens not being an NFL QB. He didn't draft him Tannenbaum did and I haven't seen him tear it up since he left. My problem with him stems from last year and specifically his inability to script a first Quarter drive that got us points.
We all know Pennington didn't have strong arm, but do not delude yourself into thinking Pennington actually had no arm. That is simply not true. I would think that, Schottenheimer at that time wasn't as experienced as he is now, and that showed in the plays he devised and the plays he called. Anyhow, the crux of the matter is that, there were SOME throws that Pennington could not make - that is not to say Pennington could not make any throw. Pass up front? Did you watch any of Pennington's game? Once given proper protection (that is a luxury under Bradway-Herm connection, by the way) Pennington hit 56 yarder TD pass to Coles - and it was a beautiful play action fake too. Just one example, not an exception by the way. Now, what could Pennington not do? Zipping the ball into the tight window - that requires some arm strength, which by that stage Pennington could not have due to injuries. And I nowadays don't know if that's Schottenheimer doing either - those passes to out pattern in tight window disappeared almost entirely along with that 3rd and goal shotgun at 2 yard line. You know, those staple plays during Mangini era. (And the kind of plays that would get Coles killed in the middle if the pass was caught.) Now I sound like Schottenheimer apologist - I guarantee you, I am not - but I had to point out the way his play calls have evolved in the past few years, and also, your unfair gripe on Pennington as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, that aside, I tend to agree with Br4dw4y5ux; his arguments have been my main focal points in the past few seasons as well. Hell. Look at Chan Gailey - he's making more out of less talented Buffalo offense.
The next three games should answer a lot of questions about the Jets offensive prowess. Then we go to Foxboro. Schotty & co. better have a rhythm going by then. If we go into the bye week 5-2...I'll be happy.
I'm so excited... we have a legitimate chance to turn this into a Chad Pennington thread! Someone go find Blocker... :smile:
I don't know what your opinion was in 2006 but your opinion of the Pennington situation seems to be revisionist history. Going into 2006 I don't recall too many optimistic people regarding the offense. We had a fraction of the talent of good offenses and were coming off the dreadful 2005 season and Pennington shoulder surgery #2. What the 06 offense was able to do was considered a minor miracle at the time.
In 06 his arm was shot. He simply couldn't make many typical NFL throws. He wasn't throwing INT's because of Shotty, he was throwing them because he had nothing on the ball on throws to the outside. He simply couldn't make them.
all great points, but for me, its even simpler then that... forget the stats and results of the play for a second, all you need to do is look at the play selection... you may get a 6 yard completion on 3rd down, but when it comes on a short hook on 3rd and 11, its a terrible call... and we see that all too often. shotty has his moments, but there are just too many calls he makes that kill drives. consistently throwing several yards short of the marker on 3rd down, going to gimmick plays too often when we are in rhythm, refusing to go back to something that worked, continuing to go with something that isnt. he is a good offensive mind, he is a terrible playcaller.
