They were good because they play with Manning. Gaffney is a good receiver. Not great but definitely good. Brady got lucky ti win those two SD games. He was given players that could have been a Reggie Wayne but didn't. Why was that? M
I came close to buying it a few weeks ago, but would have felt dirty if I did so. As I've written on this board several times through the years, I was a big Belichick fan when he was coaching the Browns and was absolutely thrilled when the Jets hired him. I was also actually happy when The Tit Man stepped down. Then I was thoroughly disgusted when Belichick resigned as HC. The problem with the book from what I've gathered is that it is too pro Belichick. It was an authorized biography. An unauthorized one would cover more of Belichick's faults. In the bookstore, I did read a few pages of the Broncos section. It seems that Belichick really fell in love with the 3-4 when he was working under Joe Collier with the Orange Crush team.
Gaffney is not a good WR and he's certainly not a guy you want to see starting alongside Reche Caldwell. Manning struggled w/ Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon, imagine him trying to win w/ Gaffney and Caldwell? Brady always gets lucky and Manning is always unlucky- it's the only explanation The answer is Indy has a much better evaluator of talent running that organization. They haven't drafted anyone that was expected to be as good as Reggie Wayne.
Not to mention it does nothing to label a wr "good" in terms of actual football. A proper qualifying statement would be whether he is a 2 or 3 or what. Almost all wide receivers in the NFL are "good"
Manning plays in a dome at home, and when he goes on the road half his games are against divisional opponents in warm areas who have also historically had pretty bad defenses during his career. Playing half of your games in a dome at home, and the other 3 in Nashville, Houston, and Jacksonville will almost certainly inflate your numbers. Obviously Foxboro has worse weather than the inside of a dome, and I would also say that Miami, Meadowlands, and Buffalo are also probably tougher for a qb when you combine the typical defenses you would face there combined with weather. Having a much better defense and a better coach has absolutely helped Brady have the better career, but at the same time you've got to be fucking kidding me if you think someone gets to 50 touchdowns just because they really fit "the system". Brady definitely has the edge, but realistically I think any reasonable person has to realize that the biggest difference between Brady and Manning is Bill Belichick. Brady's records Wins Fewest starts to achieve 100 regular-season wins as a starter (131 starts) Most consecutive wins, postseason: 10 (2001, 2003, 2004, 2005) Most consecutive wins, regular season and postseason: 21 (2003-2004) Most consecutive wins in regular-season home games: 28 (2006–present) Most seasons finishing 8-0 at home: 5 (2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010) Only quarterback to start and win 3 Super Bowls before his 28th birthday Touchdowns Most passing touchdowns, regular season: 50 (2007) Most passing touchdowns, regular season and postseason combined: 56 (2007) Most touchdown passes, month: 20 (October 2007) Most passing touchdowns, quarter: 5 (second quarter vs. Tennessee, October 18, 2009) Largest touchdown to interception differential: +42 (2007) Highest touchdown to interception ratio, season: 9.0 to 1 (36 TD/4 INT, 2010) Most games with 3+ touchdown passes, regular season: 12 (2007) Most consecutive games with 3+ touchdown passes, regular season: 10 (2007) Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 9 (2010, October 24–present Most games with 1 touchdown pass and no interceptions, season: 14 (2010) Most games with 2 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 11 (2010) Most games with 3 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 8 (2007) Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007) Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 12 - tied with Brett Favre Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 3 (2007) Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 4 - tied with Peyton Manning Most games with 6 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career 2 - tied with Peyton Manning Most games with 20 completions and no interceptions, season: 10 (2007) Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, career: 9 - tied with Drew Brees Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007) Most games with 50 pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 3 In conclusion, I copied that from wikipedia and should probably find a hobby.
Gaffney is a good receiver. You are under-evaluating him. He's better than Pierre Garcon in my opinion. Manning didn't struggle w/ Wayne and Garcon. Brady did get lucky in the SD games in 06 and 07. he played terribly in both games. Wayne was a late round 1st round pick. Branch was a very early 2nd round pick. The expectations for both were to be very good receivers. Pioli and BB are top notch talent evaluators. They have brought in plenty of weapons for Tom Brady, but none of them developed like the players that play w/ Manning.
Gaffney is not close to Garcon. He didn't struggle w/ Wayne and Garcon? 17 INTs isn't struggling? Barely winning that weak division isn't struggling? 4 INTs for TDs in 2 weeks isn't struggling? Brady did get some luck against SD in 2006 but he took advantage unlike Peyton '06 vs. Pitt. The expectations for Wayne were much higher than for Branch. If by early 2nd rd you meant late 2nd rd then I agree(Branch was the LAST pick in rd 2). Branch was 65th overall, Wayne 30th overall. That is a pretty big gap. Pioli and BB had a nice run mostly thanks to hitting a HR on a QB they thought they were drafting to be a career backup. They aren't Bill Polian.
Gaffney is as good as Garcon if not better. He's a different receiver (Garcon is a deeper threat) than Garcon but is much more reliable. Brady got lucky in 2006 AND 2007 vs. SD. Pioli and BB hit on much more than Brady. They had some great drafts, and did a great job in FA getting players that fit their system. Polian is good, but he's missed on quite a few players lately. It happens. Both Polian and Pioli/BB are great evaluators.
There's not a GM alive who would take Gaffney over garcon. Brady did get lucky and took advantage of it unlike Manning who hasn't been able to take advantage when he has gotten lucky. Pioli and BB had a nice run for 3-4 years, the last 5-6 years they have struggled until this past year when they finalyl appeared to hot more than miss. They aren't Bill Polian. Every GM misses on players but Polian has been a better drafter and it's not even close. For BB and Pioli it came down to one fortunate pick. No Brady no dynasty. Polian proved he could build contenders w/o just Manning, BB and Pioli have never built a contender w/o Brady.
Currently, there probably isn't a GM that would take Garcon over Gaffney. But had Gaffney played with Manning in 2006 / 2007 he would have out performed what Garcon has done over the last 2 years. The Pats have invested top picks for Brady and none of them developed into the players that Manning has developed. And I'm referring to guys like Collie, Garcon, Addai, and Jacob Tamme. There is a reason for it and it's not that Polian drafts better. The Patriots have hit HR's on many of their drafts (outside of a few lately, but Polian has missed lately as well) but they have mostly been on defense because the offensive players did not develop.
yes, playing w/ Tom Brady didn't help Gaffney Garcon is more talented than Gaffney, have you not seen what that man has done to us the last 2 years? garcon came froma small school and is only 3 years in and getting better. His 6 TDs this year were more than any of Gaffney's NINE seasons(coincidentally as a part time starter in NE he caught his career high of 5 and he only started 7 games while Garcon started 14 last year). Now Manning is developing players?:rofl2: Let's recap- Manning is the better QB Manning develops the talent around him better than Brady Manning's Ds have allowed less postseason points than Brady's Ds Why is Manning 9-10 in postseason while Brady is 14-5?
Gaffney would have DONE much better playing w/ Manning. Who cares about how many games he started. In today's game a start doesn't mean anything. Who was throwing to Garcon this year and whose been throwing to Gaffney in his NINE years? Garcon killed us because he beat a 2nd rate CB in 2009 and Pool made a mistake in coverage this year. Big deal. Garcon is lucky to have the best QB throwing to him. Manning turns 4th and 6th round players into top notch players while 1st and 2nd round players for Brady turn into average players.
Manning is the greatest, he turns untalented players into superstars from Sept through december but for some reason his incredible teachings do not work once the calendar turns to January. He beat Cromartie all night long this year and weren't you one of the people arguing for Cromartie a month ago? I don't believe we watch the same games.
Brady is given 1st and 2nd rounders. Why didn't they turn into the 4th and 6th rounders that Manning has? The second rate corners I was talking about was Lito Shepperd and Dwight Lowery. He beat Cromartie once in this year AFCCG.
He beat Cromartie all night including on that big pass play on 3rd and 8 to set up the FG to make it 14-13. Since Brady became the starter: 1st and 2nd rd picks: Daniel Graham- solid TE(#s don't show b/c he split a/ another 1st rd TE) Deion Branch- better in NE than in Seattle, Brady made him look so good Seattle gave up a 1st rd pick for him Bethel Johnson- terrible player, out of the league in 4 years Ben Watson- see Graham. Logan Mankins- good guard Laurence Maroney-averaged 4.2 YPC in NE, 2/1 last year in first year away from NE Chad Jackson- terrible player, out of the league in 3 years ron Gronkowski- one of the best young TEs in the game That's not a good group of 1-2 rd picks 1st and 2nd rd picks for Manning(started day 1): Jerome Pathon- average WR, had as much success in No as he had w/ Peyton Edge James- one of the best RBs in the NFL Reggie Wayne- one of the best WRs in the NFL Dallas Clark- one of the pass TEs in the NFL Joe Addai- good RB Anthony Gonzalez- talented, cannot stay on the field Mike Pollak- starting G Donald brown- bust so far but talented Both have had a ton of 1st-2nd rd picks on offense, one group has been better at evaluting players. Brady is waitring for his james, Wayne or Clark and Peyton had all 3.
Garcon did not beat Cromartie all night long Graham and Watson were not solid TE’s with Brady, they were average TE’s. The excuse that they split receptions is weak considering both rookie TE’s put up better numbers this year than either Watson or Graham ever put up (minus the ONE season Watson caught 49 passes). Watson in his first year in Cleveland caught more passes than he ever did playing w/ Brady. Deion Branch was the same player in Seattle as he was in NE – he just didn’t stay healthy. Of course Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson were terrible players. Maybe if they played w/ Manning they would have turned into superstars (or actually helped Manning turn into a superstar). Maroney was not a good RB in NE but they spent a high draft choice on him. Mankins is an elite G and Gronkowski looks to be a very good player. I love how you include “talented” for Anthony Gonzalez and Donald Brown and put “Terrible player” for Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson. Both Jackson and Johnson were also very talented but NEVER developed. Dallas Clark and Ben Watson are good comparable TE’s to look at. One turned into one of the greatest receiving TE’s in the league and the other was an average TE until he left to go to another team. Why is that? You obviously don’t get it. Brady has been given weapons and they didn’t develop into star players while Manning takes 4th, 6th round players and undrafted FA’s and turns them into good/productive players. I know how hard you are trying to convince everyone that these players are SOOOO talented and that it’s all because of Polian and w/o these players Manning would never have turned into the player he is. Unfortunately that’s all a bunch of nonsense.
Garcon beat Cro all night long. So then they didn't put up better #s than watson or Graham did, right? Deion Branch was an afterhtought in Seattle, he was a forgotten man on decent teams w/ a good QB. he comes back to NE and all of a sudden he's lighting it up. Chad jackson and Bethel Johnson were quickly out of the league. if brown and gonzalaez were let go by Indy there would be teams lining up to sign them. Yeah, Dallas Clark and Ben Watson are as comparable as Peyton Manning and david Carr. You don't get it, Brady has always been playing w/ less talent around him on offense than manning. Even a year like this when Indy had a ton of injuries Indy still had more talent to throw to. Obviously QBs like Brayd and Manning make players around them better but manning has had more talent to work w/ and that's not really even debateable.
No he didn't. The rookies put up better numbers than Watson and Graham. Watson and Graham were average w/ NE Jackson and Johnson were very talented. Watson was a fast TE coming out of college and was a very good pass catching TE. They were very comparable. Brady has been given talent and they never developed. The players Manning had around him this year were 2nd rate, but he made them better. Manning has gotten the most out of subpar players. Brady didn't.
How foolish could I be. If the Colts drafted Ryan Leaf instead of Manning, Leaf would have had all these superstars making him a HOF QB and Manning would have been out of the league by 2002.
