Don't take it too seriously. Wrong about WHAT? What claims have I made? None, other than to say that Moose isn't AS bad as you are making him out to be. If you watched the game, it wasn't that bad. He wasn't getting knocked around all over the place. To hear you tell it, he was serving up gopher balls all night. My point is that it wasn't as bad as you were saying. To serve what purpose? I'm not saying he's an ace. I'm not saying he's fantastic. The ONLY thing I'm saying is that the AMOUNT of hatred you have for him is not in line with his ACTUAL performance. I know how ERA is calculated, and I f'd up before with my post. My point wasn't really about the ERA as much it was about the give and take of the game. He gave up a run because of an error, and he had one saved because of a nice play. Overall, tonight --- and get this straight, I'm ONLY talking about tonight --- he didn't pitch AS poorly as his line. That's not to say he pitched WELL (and I hate having to be this frikkin' explicit, but I cringe to think what would conclusions you'd jump to if I wasn't), only to say that it's not as bad as you were making it out to be. I'll be even more explicit. I'm not saying it was a pretty outing. I'm not saying it was a good outing. I'm not even saying it was an decent outing. All I'm saying is that - from watching the game - his stuff was better than his line. He didn't give up many hard hit balls, and bad defense bit him in the ass a couple of times. Because he's throwing 85mph, that's going to be Life With Moose. He's going to have to pitch to contact. It's not going to be fun to watch. It will be tense. But sometimes, those dinky hits will find gloves. And he'll have good games. Sometimes, they won't, and we'll see shit like tonight. That's just how it is with him now. But to be so goddamned results-oriented as to say that he sucks and will always suck and you hate him because the Yankees lost is just wrong. Tonight, the blame does not fall on his shoulders. There's not much else he could have done (pitch to Wells notwithstanding).
So basically, you'll just keep changing your argument until I give up then? Sometimes you're ready to solely quote stats to support your argument. Now, his performance tonight wasn't as bad as his line. So which is it? He gave up a run because of an error? Come on. A runner on first magically made it home? How about the walk before Wells put one in the seats on a meatball? Is that not Mike's fault either? And why when I said I'd never be comfortable watching Moose you said that was more about me than Moose, but now you admit it will be tense and not fun to watch? Conflicted much? In the future, just ignore what I post about Moose. I like you as a poster, but you're being totally ridiculous in your defense of him. At least I can admit that I have never, and will never, like the guy, so I give him zero leeway.
That's basically what I expect of Mussina, he wasn't terrible but he wasn't good either. He can give us some inning s and keep us in games but our O has to come to play on nights he's pitching. Our O has yet to get it going but we have faced 2 very good pitchers(when healthy).
Mussina wasn't as bad as might have been. The problem is our lineup sucked (again). Toronto has some great pitching and if we don't start matching these teams with our own we will be in trouble.
I totally agree. Even about Mussina. While I can argue day and night about how atrocious the guy can be, admittedly, last night could have been significantly worse. He's a #5 starter who's been pitching in the top 2-3 spots for far too long. We can't expect him to be lights out. Anyway, it was a story of the lineup, again. Shades of early '07. No matter what the pitching does, if you can't get a baserunner to second base until the final third of the game, you're not going to win many games. I'm not ready to sound the alarm yet though. It's still cold and these guys just came home from sunny Florida. If we hit a stretch of 3 or 4 games in a row like last night, then I'll start worrying.
that is true. and thats why you and I wanted Santana I believe Don. we dont have a one-two that can match Halliday and Burnett. we dont have a one-two that can match Beckett and Dice-k. we dont have a one-two that can match Sabathia and Carmona. and we dont have a one two that can match Verlander and any of a number of guys in Detroits rotation. we probably dont have a one-two that can match Bedard and the kid in Seattle. That is why I have been and will continue to predict a long season in Yankee land. I hope im wrong
^^ thats nonsense and you know it. The length of the season is a predetermined number of days. Your subjective hopes, dreams and aspirations on the subject have nothing to do with it.
actually when you consider that by the time baseball playoffs are over, the Jets should be just about eliminated from playoff contention, its pretty damn long
Don't give me that. I'm not junc. My "argument" (such that it is one) is and always has been consistent. I put argument in quotes, because you're arguing against beliefs I don't hold. My annoyance is at you trying to put words in my mouth, telling me that I'm saying things I don't and never have believed. See below: It's never been solely one or the other. It's always been about accurately describing a situation. Stats, over the long haul, are more accurate than a person's memory/perception of performance over the long haul. When talking about a career or a season, or even two weeks of games, the brain makes shortcuts and perceptions get skewed. You remember that which fits with what you want to remember. That's how the brain works. When you're talking about one three-hour game, though, it is possible to say, "He didn't pitch as bad as his line." The memory is fresh. The information is all recent. You've been sitting there watching the game, taking it in. The brain can comprehend that. Last night, six of the eight hits Moose gave up were dinky little hits... he wasn't getting absolutely shellacked the way he was last season. That walk is the one he got robbed on, if you recall. The one where Cano and Jeter and everyone else were walking off the field. And, please, for the love of god, get this, if nothing else. I'm not saying Moose was fantastic last night. He was borderline serviceable. That's it. But that's a far cry from OMG MOOSE IS TEH SUXX0R!!! WHY IS HE ON THIS TEAM!?! Which is what I was responding to last night. What the hell are you talking about? All I've ever said is that your perception of him (in years past, and with last night's game) doesn't match the reality of the situation. You've NEVER been comfortable with him. You have admittedly ALWAYS hated him. I might find games Moose pitches to be more tense than others, but at the same time, I don't take that as an omen that he WILL not perform. Games with pitchers who don't miss bats are always going to be more tense. My "defense" of him? See, this is what I don't get. If someone got on Giambi for not coming through in the clutch or something, and I said, "Well, he hit the ball hard... if he does that all season long, he'll be in good shape," how is that a "defense" of Giambi. It's just a statement of, if not fact, then probability. It's a reasonable way to look at it, instead of projecting my own emotions about a player onto a situation. That's all I'm trying to do with Moose. See? Then you go and say something like this. Hi, and welcome to my point. Sheesh. Last night you jumped on me for saying realistically it wasn't THAT bad. But really... 5 2/3 innings of 3 ER ball from a guy who - performance-wise - is expected to be our #5 guy is something we should be willing to take every time. It's not great. But I'm also willing to bet that if Moose pitches like he did last night, he'll win more games than he loses.
Oh boy, here we go again. No, the way you present your initial arguments is that it's all about the stats. What does the line say? And that is where I disagree with you. If the stats support your perception, then fine, but if they don't, then you have to look at your perception. Moose's stats are not nearly as good as you make them out to be. It's not about remembering what I want to remember. I know he's pitched fantastic at times. I also know he's pitched absolutely atrociously at others. So "dinky little hits" don't count? The Yankees weren't even getting "dinky little hits" last night. No, Moose was not giving up massive homers. However, at the same time, his location was garbage all night. For a guy who struggles to break 85MPH, he can't afford to miss his spots. Hits are hits. Baserunners eventually score if you get enough of them on base. Umm, let's be realistic and impartial here. Moose got some terrible pitch calls in his favor last night. Balls 3-4 inches off the plate were getting called as strikes. You can't say he was robbed on one pitch when he was getting freebies all night. And that still doesn't make the pitch to Wells any less a meatball. As for my "Moose Sucks" stance, it's called consistency. I've always said it, and always will. I don't want him on this team and never have. The year before he joined the Yankees he was 11-15, with a 3.79 ERA. Yet we still treated him like we were bringing in an ace. That's been my problem with Moose all along. He's always gotten a free pass thanks to name recognition. What the hell am I talking about? Maybe it was this comment, made by you: You made me out to be crazy for being nervous whenever Moose is on the mound, which I find ridiculous when you turn around and admit you feel the same way. Yes, your defense of him. He pitches like shit, and you say "he wasn't as bad as his line". Bullshit. He was worse than his line. The fortunate thing for him was that Toronto didn't hit him as well as they should have. He threw garbage all night. Poor location supported by poor umpiring. That's what I saw. Wait, so me being pissed off for years that we gave a guy ace money, and an ace slot in the rotation, who pitches like a 5th starter, isn't okay? Because that has always been my point. And if you're going to choose to mix statistics with what you saw in one place, be consistent. That's what I've been arguing over and over here. He was credited with 3 ERs last night. However, he was out of position on the early error to Giambi, and realistically, that run belongs to him. Later in the game, Damon saved him from giving up a homer as well. That's 5 runs in 5.2 innings. He's nothing more than a stop-gap at this point. And if he continues to pitch like he did last night, he'll simply repeat last year. An ERA of 5+, and around a .500 record. Realistically, he was that bad. The problem is lowered expectations.
mind you , this all comes after Alio told cappy last night that he wasnt going to get into a "jonnydesque argument" with him over this. hahahaha
Mussina sucks, but one game isn't enough to show it again. We know he throws softly, and hopefully he'll get taken out of the rotation mid-season. I don't hate him, I just wish he took care of his body enough where he'd be throwing faster than 86.
Mussina frustrates me so much. He's usually not completely terrible but still manages to pitch badly enough so we lose.
Plus it takes him an eternity before every pitch. If you're going to suck, at least do it efficiently.
We could start an entire thread just based on things that Mike Mussina does to piss Yankees fans off. I can't stand when they interview him and he looks totally confused about why his stuff was no good that night. Here's a hint Mike: my 9 year old has a better fastball than you do. Now go do another crossword puzzle. Beacause those are generally accepted as the best preparation for a starting pitcher. BTW: Considering he only has to make one appearance a week, couldn't he pull out the razor for that one? Do I really need to see his colorless goatee all night? Moose sucks.
