He played with a partially torn labrum. How do you NOT UNDERSTAND that has an affect on a player?!!?!?! It's funny how I quote you directly and you come back with me taking your posts out of context. You said he's declining. You said he's sucked the last few years. You said he has one big game then goes games without barely getting a catch. And you based this on because you had him on your fantasy team. First I told you how few games it actually was that he didn't get a catch by using 3 receptions or less as an example of him barely getting a catch. Then you change the subject and say you expect more than three catches for an elite receiver. Well, of course you should expect more from an elite receiver. But if he was going thru games barely getting a reception (as you suggest he was) then there would be many more games of 3 receptions or less than what he actually had. You say his play is erratic but in 2006 he led the league in yards per game, was fourth amoung all receivers with 80 receptions or more in first down % and was a 1st Team All-Pro. He had 4 - 100 yard games and 1 game with 99 yards. He had 11 games of 5 or more receptions and only 3 games where he barely had a catch (3 receptions or less). Where is the erratic play? Maybe just in fantasy points. In 2007 there were only 3 receivers with more 100 yard games than Chad Johnson (Moss, Wayne and Owens). I explained to you that Palmer's play was inconsistent (he threw 20 INTs) which I'm sure you want to blame on Chad - did he run the wrong route on every single one of those INTs? I KNOW you can not answer that question which you brought up. Chad had 9 games with 5 or more receptions including FIVE games with 8 or more receptions. Is that what you mean when you say he goes games without barely getting a catch then 1 game where he goes off? I have explained to you over and over again that the reason this whole back and forth came about was because YOU said Chad Johnson was on the decline. You are incorrect. This is the sequence of posts. It is very simple. I explained that his fantasy value has dropped because he has not been scoring TDs. YOU brought up Housh: No, I don't think you get it. They are your words. Chad sucked the last few years and it's been all because of himself and his "decline" and had nothing to do with the players around him. Funny thing is...he hasn't sucked the last few years. Precisely!! 3 catches does suck! And he rarely has a game with 3 receptions or less! All of this is because you are so wrong and you can't believe someone is calling you out for your garbage fantasy football knowledge. I also find it funny how you keep bringing up stuff that have nothing to do with the discussion like his jacket or whether or not I'm logged on. People who do this have no case for their argument and try to change the subject. I would actually care that you "kicked me in the balls" if you actually could. You've changed your argument so many times its impossible to keep up. You're the one who continues to make this personal. You're the one who keeps bringing up his trade value. That wasn't even an issue with me. I think he is only worth about a 4th round pick. But I feel I need to explain this to you again. Read slowly: My whole issue with your argument is that he hasn't been on the decline and he hasn't sucked. Read that a few more times until it sinks in. So, if you respond keep to the subject of the debate and stop making this personal.
OMG!!!!! You're still at it? hmy: It's funny how you say I'm immature, when I tried to end this is a nice manner several days ago. I said 'we both have our opinions, let's just agree that we differ on this.' I wanted to move on. YOU wouldn't (or couldn't) let it go, so it would seem to me that you are the immature one.
Okay here are two stories about how Chad was doing push ups with this 'serious injury'. http://www.scoresreport.com/tag/chad-johnson-shoulder-injury/ http://www.intentionalfoul.com/nfl/torn-labrum-problem/ I'm not saying he wasn't injured, but I don't think he had as serious an injury as a torn labrum. You are not doing 20 push ups, let alone on an unstable stool when you have a torn labrum. Also, the only source I can find that says Chad actually has a torn laburm is an ESPN "anonymous source", and we know how reliable they are.... I assume you can't find anything better either, cause I asked about this previously and you came back with nothing. I guess it doesn't really matter cause you'll fall back on the "QB issues" as a reason to totally ignore Chad's 2008 stats. As for the rest of it, yeah, yeah, yeah.... We've been through this multiple times. I'm not gonna bother going line by line AGAIN; It's all been covered in previous posts. However, to summarize - you are taking things out of context (you don't seem to know what that means), and you're wrong. I don't think you even try to read my posts for comprehension. You just repeat the same thing again and again, like a parrot. :smile: I know you don't even try to answer any of my questions.... From the start I said Chad is not worth a 1st day pick, but I was willing to give up a 4th for him, even with the problems that come with him, eventhough I knew such a trade would never happen. That has never change, regardless of your (mis)perception. You seem to ignore most of that and pick and choose what you need at the moment for you argument. You keep trying to draw this picture that I absolutely hate Chad and think he's worth less than shit or something. It's never been true, but you can't seem to get that through that thick skull of yours. You've tried to minimize my opinion from the start by intentionally misrepresenting what I say and throwing the word 'fantasy' into every post. It's funny! I happen to mention that I noticed how erratic he was in 2006, while he was on my fantasy team. You can't seem to separate the two things and think his fantasy production IS THE REASON I think he's been erratic or in decline. WRONG! Most of this argument has turned into what YOU THINK I think about Chad vs. what I actually think about Chad. It's actually kind of pathetic that you'd spend so much time trying to tell me what I think about a guy (even when I'm telling you I don't) and then go on to tell me I'm wrong for thinking that way (eventhough I don't). :lol: There are a lot of statistical thing you throw out there that I disagree with, and I've covered what most of them are. But just cause I don't agree with you that catching 4 passes equals 'consistent' play from a 'stud WR, does not mean I think he's worth shit. BTW, your focus on the # of catches is silly. But I'm also not believing he the same guys from 2004/2005 either. Stop trying to prove Ocho Cinco is the same stud player from 2004/2005 or that he'd bring that type of production to this Jets team. Your stats aren't doing it, especially when you ignore a whole year and have excuses for every single blip in his production. And again, you don't answer any of those questions I ask pertaining to team situation. I thought the HOF jacket things was just a funny line. Strange how you see so much more in that comment than was actually there. Well, maybe not strange cause you do that with everything else.... The fact that you spend hours composing a reply tells me that I shouldn't bother with logic anymore; You're blind to it. You're obsessed! I'm posting now so that the 2% of those who don't think we're both complete jackasses at this point, will see my side and know the truth. :smile: I tried to end this DAYS ago. If you don't think Chad has declined at all, why aren't you willing to give up a day 1 pick for him? If his production hasn't gone down, what are all these excuses you're making trying to explain away? If his stats haven't changed, why do you want to completely ignore 2008? You've even reduced his value in your last post to a 4th; Previously you had it higher. You're the one making it personal by constantly putting words in my mouth and being unable to just let it go. You're just wrong, period. I really wish you'd lock this. You are a Mod aren't you? Don't you have that power or do I need an Admin to do it?
So just to clear this up, there is no actual valid rumor of us getting him right? So this is all pointless?
Yes, COMPLETELY POINTLESS. I said as much days ago. Good reason to just drop it right? Can you maybe convince Murrell2878 of that. I'm only replying cause he puts words in my mouth. :sad:
I've got my fingers crossed, but from what I've seen, I'm not hopeful. I've even hit the notify button myself asking for a lock. It hasn't happened yet. :sad:
You keep bringing up the draft pick and I've said REPEATEDLY that was not my issue with your post. And I have the thick head?! Give me a break And I've PROVEN to you that his play in 2006 was NOT erratic and you can't seem to get it. You haven't proven to me in any way other than he was on your fantasy team that he WAS erratic so what else am I supposed to believe other than that you based your opinion on fantasy football numbers. All the stats that I showed you PROVED that his play was not erratic or in a decline until 2008 when he had multiple injuries and Ryan freakin' Fitzpatrick as his QB. Again, you can't stick to the topic and resort to making this a personal thing. I didn't even know who you were until this thread. You shouldn't give up a 1st or 2nd round pick for Chad because of his injuries last year and the fact that the Bengals want to unload him. I have explained to you what's going on in Cincy over the last few years so you can understand why his fantasy production was lower than usual. You just can't seem to grasp what actually was going on in Cincy because you are holding on to your weak argument by anything you can. 2008 is very simple: multiple injuries and Ryan Fitzpatrick. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you. I've quoted you DIRECTLY. I have NEVER put words in your mouth. Yes, I am a mod, and there is no reason at all to close this thread, so why would I close it? I saw your reported post as well, and this thread will not be closed even at the request of one of the particpants.
Yes, I know exactly what I posted. That's how I know you're putting words in my mouth and taking things out of context. I thought it would be obvious that I know what I typed and what I meant better then you. BTW you couldn't even take Easter off?!?!?! Sheesh, get a life!
Swing and a miss.... :smile: You miss on everything don't you? You quoted me, then go on to totally ignore all questions, once again. You totally missed my point and then ask if you're thick headed??? Yes, you are EXTREMELY THICK headed. Why don't you give all of us a break and MOVE ON ALREADY!!! You proved NOTHING. REPEAT #9873425 - 3 catches is not some magical cut off. If you even bothered reading any of my posts, you'd realize I'm not trying to prove anything to you. I don't care what you think. I am fine with you having a different opinion, even if you're wrong. :smile: Oh and there's that word again, 'fantasy'. You are so ridiculous! :lol: Repeat #17395662 - You proved NOTHING. How can stats prove anything when you ignore half of them and have excuses for the rest?!?!? You don't answer any questions, so why bother. How is making a joke about Chad's LAME HOF Jacket celebration personal for you??? Are you secretly Chad Ocho Cinco posting on this board??? You make it personal by not letting it go when NOBODY CARES. Even I don't care and I'm the one you're fixated on. I take it personally cause you're directing your crap at me and you're annoying as shit. Why did you have to know who I was during this thread? MOVE ON ALREADY!!! SHEESH!!! I couldn't care less if you knew who I was. I've been here longer than you and I barely broke 1000 post. I was here when it was still the old software. I'm not looking to be 'known'. I'm here to read and talk about Jets football when the mood hits me. Now instead of looking to see if anything new is going on with my team, I have to dread the stupidity that is you. Go argue with someone who thinks you're opinion means something. BTW I didn't know who you were either, as if that's suppose to mean anything. Why would last years injury affect Chad's worth this year? Are you saying he's still injured? The Broncos wanted to unload Cutler and they seem to have gotten more than a 1st OR 2nd.... A team wanting to unload a player shouldn't mean he's worth less to you. It should only mean that other team doesn't have the threat of keeping the guy and asking for more. I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOUR CRAPPY ARGUEMENTS??? You being a total dick will not make me. Oh and there's that word again, 'fantasy'. :wink: MOVE ON ALREADY!!! Quoting 'directly' and keeping things in context are two different things. It's obvious you don't understand that. You always put words in my mouth. How else do you end up saying I 'flip-flop' on Chad??? It's cause you put words in my mouth. You should close this thread cause you are harassing and fighting with me and you've been extremely rude. It fits all the problematic criteria listed under the notify button. So how would I get this thread locked? Do I actually need to make it personal? I'm sure some of you out there have gotten a thread locked before. Help me out! Get over it. MOVE ON ALREADY!!!
You guys have way too much time on your hands. That being said, I would rather trade Bryan Thomas and a 2010 conditional 4th.
I've been trying to get him to stop for DAYS!!!! I'd completely ignore him, but he keeps misrepresenting what I say.
Chad WAS injured in 2008. His shoulder, ankle and hamstring all hurt. All this talk about misrepresenting what people say but you have been the biggest offender in this thread. You have said multiple times that he went many games with barely getting a catch. This is the point about 3 receptions or less, because you don’t seem to get it. In order for your argument to be correct, he would have to go thru many games of having 3 receptions or less. The fact that he didn’t go thru many games proves your argument to be false. 4 receptions isn’t a big number, but it does show production in a game. I do find it funny how you ignore the fact that in 2006 he had 11 games where he caught 5 or more passes. You ignored the stat I mentioned that of all the players in the NFL who had 80 or more receptions he was 4th in % of catches were for a first down. He was a 1st team All-Pro and had 4 – 100 yard games and 1 of 99 yards. I understand that you probably got burned having him on your fantasy team because he did have two monster weeks that made the rest of his season seem pedestrian. And in TD production it was. But to say he was erratic is incorrect. I don’t care if you have a different opinion than me. What I do care about is you formed an opinion based on mediocre information then claim I’m misrepresenting what you say. I wonder if Jerry Rice would have been able to put up huge numbers with a bum shoulder, ankle and hamstring and have Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB. The Broncos received so much in return for Cutler because there were going to be other teams involved in the negotiations which would have driven up the price. Chicago just made a huge offer to start the whole thing. I would not want the Jets to be involved in a bidding war for Chad Johnson. And now you’ve stepped it up to a personal attack. Great Harassing and fighting and rude?! I’ve been calm thru all of this. If anyone has been rude and condescending it’s been you. I enjoy making points and counter points while discussing football. You don’t like this because you’ve been called out. I’m guessing because I showed you time and again that Chad was not erratic and it must have hurt your pride or something. My point about not knowing you is that this is not personal for me and that I don’t have some personal vendetta against you. We could be in a thread next week on the same side of a discussion. You should probably move on from this discussion at this point because you are no longer providing any value to it other than personal attacks. If you want to continue believing Chad has been on the decline that is totally up to you. I’ve tried over and over again to show you that he has not been. I’ve given you stats to back up my opinion which I will summarize below. Unfortunately you did not provide any information to prove he has been on the decline and you have resorted to making this personal. 2006 87 rec 1369 yds 15.7 YPC 4th % of receptions for a 1st down among those with 80+ receptions 4 – 100 yard games and 1 for 99 yards 3 games with 3 receptions or less 11 games with 5 receptions or more 10 games with 70 or more yards 1st team All-Pro 2007 96 rec 1440 yds 15.5 YPC 4 games with 3 receptions or less 9 games with 5 receptions or more including FIVE with 8 or more! 11 games of 70 or more yards Only 3 receivers had more 100 yard games than Chad did
