Alio, I tried to give you a definition. You didn't say anything about it. Under your definition, every team in the NFL cheats every week. So then if that's the case, why would this even be news and why are you supporting a league full of cheats?
That's interesting. You've still yet to answer the question. Again, I said there's levels of severity. Obviously holding is not nearly as severe in terms of a game's outcome as is videotaping signals. But both are breaking the rules, and are cheating by its very definition. And no, you didn't give me a definition. By your own admission, you couldn't put your position into words. I answered that by stating flatly that this was because your position is indefensible. I wasn't going to bother until you actually provided me with your own definition, but here is an actual definition of the word, since I know you'll never be able to provide one that supports your case that isn't a total fabrication of your own making. By its very definition, when you break a rule, it's cheating. Holding, Pass Interference, Faking Audibles, Taping Sidelines. All cheating, by definition. Period. EOS.
http://suckatsports.blogspot.com/2007/09/meow-apple-doesnt-fall-far-from-tree.html I don't understand, did Brian have this speech all ready in case he lost? And then he just let out, even though he won? He knows he won, right? I know that last drive scared him, but thanks to that the Jets covered for me. I can't wait till he get that blazing offense running up and down the field, that'll be any day now. This is what gets me though, these guys yell all sorts of things to each other to throw them off their game. They'll crack jokes to make them laugh, they'll even say things about their mothers to make them flinch or make them mad, a la Marco Materazzi. But really, the thing that gets flagged is some illegal sounding hut-hut-hut noises? Am I the only that finds these rules just a little bizarre? So, professional athletes can hold their concentration and their temper when someone is talking about cornholing their mom, but when it comes to snap counts, slow down buddy. Seems to me like there's a mix up of priority there. The humanity! Where does the cheating stop? Soon, they'll be tackling people with the ball.
nah i made my points. im just not getting caught in rhetoric this is an argument that doesnt deserve this many posts. as someone who used to play football. OL/DL, I view it as nothing more than presnap noise. when I was on OL, the front seven does everything in their power to get you to commit presnap penalties. plenty of enrcroachments by DL trying to get you to jump, they go un-noticed by refs. alot of hand and arm twitching by DL, alot of LB's randomly screaming football terms. point in case, what this breaks down to, to a football player is. "DONT JUMP" ive said all i need to, you have your stance, I have mine. continue debating with Willie cuz this is small potatoes to me. If the League thinks we should be punished, fine. but I wouldnt expect anything more than a minor fine to the organization. then again were not the pats, so I doubt wed get the kid gloves treatment from gooddell.
We're not getting any punishment, as I said. The punishment we will get is that we will get flagged in the future if we do it, on the field, during the game. Nothing more is warranted.
That's the definition of cheating that's relevant to this game. It's the element of deception and subterfuge that seals it.
lol then thats fine. my initial point was its the refs fault for not being on his shit. ok were done here alio :wink: expect a PM soon
Long time reader, first time poster. Billick is clearly going after Mangenius because Billick is part of the old boy's coach network. These old jerks can't deal with Mangini coming out and being HONEST for a change and stopping the hijinks of the NFL so they're just making up stuff and blowing it out of proportion to stop the Jets and hurt Mangini. Real bush league stuff. We should lodge a protest against Billick also for lodging a protest against us.
I guess this is all symantyx, for me penalties are part of the game and not considered cheating. They have a set of prescribed penalties to the offending party. Also, as part of that, penalties that are missed by the refs are fair game. What Belly did was outside of the game itself and thus the penalty was not writen into the rules.
Wow, this argument is still going on. IF it happened, calling a fake snap count is exactly the same as jumping offside to try to draw a false start. It gets flagged, and it results in a 5 yard penalty. It's not gamesmanship. I wouldn't exactly call it cheating, either, as that definition is generally only applied to sports when there is an attempt at subterfuge. This was out in the open, on the field, and in plain view of both the refs and the opposing team. They know the refs can hear it, they know they'll get flagged for it. I don't think any of us want this, just as nobody wants to see the Jets flagged for a penalty. To say you're disgusted by it, though, is just silly.
No kidding. This is stuff football players were taught to do in pop warner football along with other things like kicking dirt on the ball before the center snaps it. While it is a penalty, it's a far cry from the shit the Patsies were into.
Well I did try to give you a definition, you chose to ignore it and focus on my last sentence commenting on my attempt at a definition. Not a very good one, I'll admit. You know damn well that words take different meaning in different contexts in the English language. Where I come from, when you accuse someone of cheating, you are accusing them of some wrong doing that casts a negative light on them. If you were accused of cheating in a game, you would be disqualified from that game, whatever it may be. Maybe where you come from cheating in sports is as simple as breaking the rules of a game, I don't know. Just recognize that using your definition, every NFL team "cheats" on a weekly basis. Regardless of whether it's a high level or low level of cheating, as you said, cheating is cheating therefore based on your own definition every NFL team cheats every Sunday. If that doesn't sound ridiculous to you than you are the one lying to yourself. I'm done with this ridiculousness, I'm going to go cheat in madden now.
