You have severely undervalued Wesley Walker. Cherbet is barely even playing the same sport as Wlaker. Also, you may want to look as some touchdown scoring stats before tellying us that Coles or Sauer is a more dangerous weapon than Wesley walker.
The best thing either of those two guys did for us was to get us to the AFC Championship game against Denver. Key was the # 1 WR and contributed more to our team that year than Cherbet. Both guys played very well that year but Key was the better wideout.
First I have not severely undervalued Wesley Walker. I'm only putting him where he realistically should be. Walker was an AMAZING deep threat, but when you compare him to what Coles does or what Sauer did, he falls a bit short. I'm sorry, I know that he was everyone's childhood hero. He's still one of the best we have had, but he's not better than Sauer or Coles. EDIT - Sauer's best 3 seasons: 1968 66 rec 1,141 yds 17.3 avg 3 Tds 2nd Team AFL All Pro 1967 75 rec 1,189 yds 15.9 avg 6 Tds 1st Team AFL All Pro 1966 63 rec 1,079 yds 17.1 avg 5 Tds 1st Team AFL All Pro Walker's best 3 seasons 1978 48 rec 1,169 yds 24.4 avg 8 Tds 1st Team All Pro 1982 39 rec 620 yds 15.9 avg 6 Tds (in strike shortened season, garnered one 1st team all pro selection) 1986 49 rec 1,016 yds 20.7 avg 12 Tds (7 of 12 Tds were in 2 games. garnered one 2nd team all pro selection)
It's tough to compare. Their value were really different. Chrebet was the slot guy who was the main target on 3rd downs who always found the holes in the coverage. Keyshawn was the guy that drew the extra attention who was the endzone target and ran the tough crossing routes. Man was he tough. Keyshawn had the better statistical season but he was not better than Chrebet that year. They both had equal value.
Its Wesley Walker for me, Toon second and Chrebet third. At the end of the day, I enjoyed wathching all of them play.
Key was the # 1 WR, he faced the double teams. If his stats were superior, he had to play better than Cherbet to make that happen. Cherbet is a great underdog story but he never made one pro bowl ever. I like the guy but he may be the most overrated Jet ever.
One one hand you say Keyshawn's stats are better than Chrebet's so he must have been better...yet, Sauer's comparative stats are better than Walker's yet you say Walker was better...:breakdance:
Key didn't? yeah they did make each other better but Chrebet was never even close to as good as 1998 again while Key went on to become a top WR for another team so Wayne needed Key more than Key needed Wayne. There's no question who the beter player for us was, Chrebet ranks ahead of him b/c of longevity but he wasn't close to the player Key was.
Key and flashlight played on the same team at the same time. Also, the most important stat for any offensive player is touchdowns and I doubt Sauer had 84 of those.
I agree with this. Comparing eras is tricky because over time the NFL has made the rules more friendly to the passing game. Then again, the AFL was a pass happy league back in the 60s. Some of the older guys who saw the AFL might be able to shed some better light on that.
That's an interesting comment. If you actually watched SB3 on replay Winston Hill didn't score a point but was probably the most dominating player in the entire game. Sauer didn't score either but he dominated the Colts on a day when Maynard was hurt and basically a decoy. Walker was an excellent big strike WR, I just don't think he was the all around complete package that either Sauer or Toon was, personally I thought Keyshawn and Maynard were also better but Walker was very good and very productive although not consistently productive.
84?? I'm not sure why you threw out that number, but Walker didn't have 84 of them either. He finished his career with 71. Anyway, my whole point on Chrebet is that some are saying he shouldn't even be considered on this list, but I feel he absolutely should. He is 2nd all-time in Jets receptions.
I watched the game yesterday, with player commentary thrown in. Namath kept saying, over and over, that they were going to go to the left, because they had the advantage there. "Do it until they prove they can stop it," he kept saying. And they sure as hell couldn't stop it... Hill was INCREDIBLE. He made the right side of the Colts defense look like a bunch of dominos. He'd take that first step outside, and just plow that entire side of the line. The right side of the Colts D looked like a car-wreck.. Then, usually Boozer would come out around the corner as a lead blocker, kicking out whatever scraps were left, and Snell would turn up field for 3-10 yards. This happened over, and over and over. I had watched the game before, but I had never really focused on the trenches. Hill was one hell of a player!
He gets consideration because of longevity. But he was not a great player at any point in his career. If you were to suggest, during one of the seasons when Key and Chrebet were playing together, that Chrebet was the better player, you would have been laughed out of the room. Key was one of the top WRs in the league at that point, and Chrebet was the slot guy who reaped the benefits of Keyshawn taking on double teams, and opening up the field. Chrebet contributed more to the Jets over the course of his career. But when they were both here, Chrebet couldn't hold Keyshawn's jock.
The reason the Colts were favored by so large a margin is because the Colts had the best defensive front in football and the Jets O was going to be manhandled. The first half of the game the Jets got a little lucky and hung in there on a couple of real bad plays by the Colts who had an opportunity to open up a lead. Once the Jets settled down, the Colts D Front was absolutely manhandled, it was actually amazing to watch particularly if you saw the way the Colts handled the Browns in the NFL Championship game. The Browns had a great running attack lead by Leroy Kelly who averaged 5 YPC and had over 1200 yards that season. He had a pretty good game against the Cowboys in the confrence finals but he ran for 22 yards on 13 carries and was a total nonefactor as the Browns were shut out by the Colts in the NFL final that year 34 to 0.
You can make an argument that neither player were as good apart as they were together and I think you would be 100% correct. Besides Keyshawn's 106 reception season with Tampa Bay (he only had 1 TD) where he was their only receiving threat the rest of his career would be considered above average. His best two seasons were in 98 and 99. Same thing with Chrebet where he had his best two seasons in 96 and 98 (although you could put 2000 in the discussion as well).
I'd heard as much. I'm a young guy, but I have watched a lot of football in my life, and I can tell you that I have NEVER seen a single offensive lineman dominate a game like Hill did SBIII. I've seen guys like Tony Boselli, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden really man handle the DE lining up opposite them, but I've never seen one OL decimate an entire front 7 the way Hill did. I'd like to hear from one of you who were around to see him week-in and week-out, whether that game was typical of Hill. I've seen plenty of old Jets highlight tapes, where he is dominant, but watching him every down over the course of an entire game is really something to behold. If that was how he played every game, I have NO idea why he's not in the HOF. Really one of the most impressive single-game performances I've ever seen.
W/o any help it kind of makes life harder for a WR like Key and yet he still had 106 recs. Wayne didn't have anybofy around him in '95(I know he was a rookie) or '00(Coles was just a rookie) and he didn't put up #s anywhere near Key's '01. Let's not forget that Key made Ray Lucas look like an NFL QB in 1999, w/ Key gone in '00 when ray got his shot he was terrible and we had to rush Vinny back from injury. Chrebet had ONE 1,000 yd season and that was 1,083 yds thanks to key taking all the pressure off him on the other side. Chrebet also was over 900 yds 3 times while Key had 4 1,000 yd seasons( 2 w/o Chrebet) and 6 seasons over 900 yds. Key only had 1 season under 800 yds and that was '03 when he got suspended. he already had 600 yds in 10 games. Wayne was under 800 yds 4 full seasons(I didn't count his injury years). There's really no comparison, Key was MUCH better. Their per game #s were: Key: 4.87 recs, 63 yds, .38 TDs Wayne: 3.82 recs, 48 yds, .27 TDs Per game averages w/o each other: Key(2000-2006, 105 games): 4.85 recs, 62 yds, .31 TDs Wayne(1995, 2000-2005, 93 games): 3.4 recs, 42 yds, .26 TDs
Both of their careers apart were below what they did together. Keyshawn's 2002 totals doesn't impress me. His '01 totals are equally unimpressive considering he had only 1 TD. Derrick Mason caught over 100 passes last year with no one around him. Doesn't make him an elite reciever. Key was an above average WR without Chrebet and a top 5 receiver with him. Chrebet's number dipped without Keyshawn around too. I'm not saying he was a better receiver than Key. I said he was better for the Jets - which he was when you factor in his career with the team..which is a point you have already made as well. I would have liked to have seen what Keyshawn would have done if he had stayed in NY but he didn't. Again, my point is to NOT diminish what Chrebet did here. Which is what everyone seems to be trying to do. He's earned the right to be considered one of the best WR's the Jets have ever had. Had Keyshawn stayed here he would have surpassed Chrebet in that argument...but he didn't.
