are you serious or joking about Rosen? He is entitled, coddled and soft. Of the top prospects, if you look at attitude alone, he's the one I least want. I'd take Mayfield's heart on this team anyday. but attitude, heart, etc.. that's only part of what it takes to succeed
also regarding Mayfield's attitude- I don't understand the comp to Johnny Manziel at all that I have been seeing. Johnny 8-ball's problem is that he didn't care enough about the game of football. People are watching Mayfield out there talking shit to opponents, smacking around linebackers on his own team before the game, firing up his lineman and saying he's like Manziel. It doesn't make any sense. That's the opposite of Manziel. Manziel didn't give a shit about anything else but himself. It's a criticism that contradicts its self
I like mayfield. I think he can play in the NFL. He had some things to work on and if he does, he will be fine. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Attitude and heart only takes you so far, ask Tim Tebow. I am not enamoured with the skill-sets Mayfield brings to the table. Rosen's IQ far exceeds anything Mayfield has. He questions and learns everything about an offense. He's exactly the type of QB the Jets need. He went as far as to question Trent Dilfer during an Elite 11 camp and while it rubbed Dilfer the wrong way, he really impressed his coaches with his ability to pick up on things. He's not a yes-man, that to me goes a long way. Do I think he's spoiled? Yeah I do, but he also has an obsessive personality and wants to be the best at everything he does.
@BrowningNagle to add ... here was the excerpt from Dilfer: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...e-11-browns-giants/1v6da6sekzr4n15ti8b1h50afj I don't think these are things Mayfield can bring to the table, we need to scheme around Mayfleld, but I don't think you need to scheme around Rosen. This is the type of QB we haven't had in our franchise in sometime. Perhaps Pennington was the opposite in terms of his attitude, but the approach in a way remains the same.
I disagree on Rosen and that's cool, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Its a very interesting group of QBs, I'll say that. Every one of the top prospects is so different that it's almost like a case study. Everyone's got opinions and the crazy thing is that each of these top QBs fits into the exaggerated stereotype of want people want. -do you think it's all about raw talent and IQ? - Rosen is ur guy -do you value experience and production, and think things like measurables are overrated? Mayfield is ur guy -do you think measurables and projections are most important and production/experience against top competition is overrated? Josh Allen -Are you an intangibles and pro-style pocket passer guy? Darnold -Or do you think all that other stuff is the legacy model and a great athlete who can run and throw is the new way to succeed? Lamar Jackson Its amazing and I'm really interested in seeing who pans out and who doesnt
Yes, the landscape of the NFL will change entirely IMO after this off-season. This class has a shot to rival the 83 draft. I just hope we put our stamp on it and get the best guy. Jet fans have been waiting for this opportunity for a very long time. I hope the Browns fall in love with Mayfield and the Giants fall in love with Josh Allen. I want Rosen, Darnold or Jackson.
WOW! What a great snapshot! You pretty much nailed it. If we could categorize the posters here by your questions, I think we would see exactly who is pushing for which QB. But why can't we get a guy who possesses all those traits?
Here is where I take exception with your claims. I don't have a problem with the pros you listed about Rosen, they are fair points. But what I've left in the quotes here, can you actually provide hard evidence that proves any of this? I may be mistaken and have missed you providing this clarity in a previous post, but looking at this I see a whole bunch of confirmation bias. It seems you want to believe this is true. Where is the evidence? What Rosen does that shows his level of intelligence is entirely irrelevant to Baker Mayfield's intelligence. Show concrete evidence that one is actually more intelligent than the other. That burden is on you since it is your claim. Also, you espouse Tim Tebow. By naming him, you're creating a transitive association between Tebow and Mayfield to try to drive the narrative that Mayfields positives will translate into failure at the NFL. Tim Tebow and his career again have nothing to do with Baker Mayfield as a person or as a football player. Please give evidence specific to Baker Mayfield himself as to why he will fail. Show us poor field presence and decision making. Show us inaccuracy, or poor mobility, or pocket presence, or a tendency to turn the ball over in bad spots. Show us specific to Mayfield where he's bad. The only legitimate red flag I have yet to see on Mayfield is the arrest, which there happens to be a video of and extensive reporting on. If you go through that, you'll realize he did a dumb college thing which tons and tons of people do. This is not evidence of a man with an addiction problem, but a young athlete that still has some growing up to do. He may very well be what people fear but based on information available to us, it is not strong evidence of that being the case. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
1. Sure, here is an excerpt from Trent Dilfer about his IQ. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...e-11-browns-giants/1v6da6sekzr4n15ti8b1h50afj This is the type of QB the Jets need. People have known about Rosen's IQ since HS. Rosen has been this way since the start, he questions authority and ensures he's in the right situation on the field. In due time, Rosen will become the system himself ... meaning the system is tailored to his skill-sets and he will have complete command of the huddle. Mayfield, I truly believe you will need to scheme around him, get the right weapons and etc. I see Rosen and I see a QB that can make those around him better. 2. I do not condone throwing footballs at the opponents' head prior to a game, that's not leadership that's being a complete tool and to me that act gets old real quick in the NFL. This turned me off so much. https://nypost.com/2017/12/01/video-of-baker-mayfield-drilling-tcu-foe-in-the-head-is-back/ I don't care about the arrest, I actually looked past it, but I do not condone the above. 3. I compared Tebow-Mayfield only in terms of "attitude and heart" ... it takes more to succeed in the league. 4. On the field performance: - Big 12 defenses (wide open all day long; lack of defense) - I watched the tape, not a lot of throws in tight windows; accurate yes; but not impressed I think Mayfield fundamentally has some good things to work with in terms of throwing motion, and accuracy ... but I think he lacks the deep ball, ability to read defenses and was schematically put in a great situation. He easily was in the best situation to succeed in comparison to other QBs.
I would be fine with Mayfield or Rosen. I 1000% prefer Rosen though. Also re: Dilfer’s Camp - Rosen went back for a second camp and he impressed Dilfer with how much he had “grown up”. Additionally Dilfer said Rosen dispelled any of his previous impressions. Source: Dilfer in a recent interview.
Mayfield is intriguing but I think he fails in the NFL. He didn’t play against a level of competition that really forces his hand to act as an NFL caliber QB. He had much better talent around him then a lot of other QBs being discussed. Have some of you watched these games of Mayfield? It’s incredible just how schematically sound that offense was at the college level. The problem is, it looked nothing like a pro style offense. It’s not an exaggeration when people say that his receivers were wide open. A LOT. Mostly is hot receivers too, which makes the QBs life that much easier. Especially at the college level. The guy is a douche bag. He just is. Even his attitude in interviews, and on the field Is not professional in the least. He’s caught a lot of heat for these things and I just don’t see this team taking someone with that many red flags. Especially from an influential standpoint that could potential manifest in our locker room. Mac and Bowles have been very strict about cleaning up those “bad eggs” in that locker room. They’ve cut or traded everyone (exception is Mo but I’m guessing that’s going to happen soon) that has had a bad influence in that locker room. I commend them for that and fully expect the same approach in the draft. Talented and High Character type rookies. Mayfield doesn’t fit that’s bill. IMO
Douchebags come in all forms. I think Mayfield’s true grit probably puts people off who don’t know him first hand. I bet he’s the type of guy that once you know him you love him. He was revered in the Oklahoma locker room, FWIW. As long as the team loves him and he’s not pulling a Robbie Anderson / Sheldon Richardson, he’ll be fine. Last, if Mayfield has the IQ, his technique will get him to success. His footwork and accuracy are remarkable. His desire is unquestioned. I think he’s a really interesting prospect.
Field presence and ability to read defenses is IMO paramount in the NFL. Quick release and arm strength next, it must be adequate and or above average. The windows shrink exponentially at that level and the defensive formations are extremely well disguised. I sincerely hope this regime does their homework along those lines. You can have the heart of a warrior and all the leadership qualities in the world, loved by the lockeroom to boot, and it wont mean two shits if you are not superiorly skilled in items one and two. So Mayfield, Rosen and whoever else is seriously considered for the Jets needs to excel with the first two items and be adequate with the next two. That translates into a superior football IQ first, and you either have it or you don't coming out of college. Of course, robustness versus injury prone is a risk consideration that needs to be factored in. I wonder how the QBs would rank if you used the above criteria. I would argue Rosen Darnold no clear third candidate
Per Chad Forbes on twitter - Worst kept secret in Indy? Jets are very interested in Baker Mayfield. Not really shy about it either. Tons of talk of how will Mayfield do in the NY market? If we miss out on Cousins, landing Baker at 6, while re-signed McCown to be a spot starter, or backup would also be a great way to go IMO
Would rather he have his eyes set on Baker as opposed to Allen. At least you know you're drafting a kid who's not only won a ton, but one that statistically continues to improve. Factor in the swagger he brings to the field and I think he could be a slam dunk. But obviously not everyone will think so
Mayfield is a guy with an edge that will translate well with teammates. They respond to him and rally around him. Rosen is a guy with an edge that can rub teammates, coaches and scouts the wrong way, and has rubbed many the wrong way. I'd take Mayfield over Rosen no doubt. You don't want the wrong type of douchebag at such a critical position.
Mayfield has the highest floor in this draft, Allen has the highest ceiling imo. If we drafting a QB, I'd be happy with either.
