ASOIAF: Game of Thrones Books (Contains SPOILERS!!)

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by abyzmul, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Based on what? Because they are out-maneuvering opponents? They are not even close to what they were at the beginningof the books. And I'm not Webb sure that Tyrion is a Lannister.

    Varys and Illyrio are doing the same maneuvering, just not as gaudily.

    When the Lannisters lose their advantage, will you consider them main characters still?

    They are the villains of the series, bar none. Even with Jaime's inability to conform.
     
  2. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    As I said, he's the obvious candidate, especially now, assuming Melissandre brings him back.

    But he is also a prime candidate for Azor Ahai Reborn, who is not necessarily The Prince That Was Promised.

    Neither of those historical characters have been mentioned in the same sentence in any of the books.
     
  3. deerow84

    deerow84 Well-Known Member

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    Based on typical story structure I would say the Starks and Targaryens are the protagonists and the Lannisters are one of the antagonists (more than just them, obviously). Not really sure of this series follows the "typical story structure" though, it's too complex and messy.
     
  4. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    See my post above.

    Hard to tell. She is training as a Faceless Man, and also is still connected to her direwolf, which is terrorizing the Riverlands with a giant horde of wolves.

    The obvious response is that, as a Faceless Man, she is assigned to kill someone in Westeros. Someone important. If that is what happens, I think it will be someone from her own family. Likely either Jon or Sansa. I'd guess Sansa, because I think Littlefinger will figure out a way to put her into power.

    What I'd like to see is that she breaks her training for some reason, with the skills she has learned, hops a boat back to Westeros, somehow reconnects with her DW, and becomes part of the vanguard of an army that Jon is leading to conquer the South.

    Then again, this is assuming that the Children of the Forest are the good guys.

    It's entirely possible that the CoF created the White Walkers to combat mankind, that the Starks were their allies, that Bran becomes The Great Other, and that Jon is a new version of the Night's King and the Stark family is revealed as the real evil.

    My favorite character, although ADWD didn't do him justice. He's likely to connect with Dany, unless GRRM pulls another fast one and they don't met in the next book.

    I'm guessing at this point that Tyrion ends up being chosen as Dany's true Hand after somehow proving himself. I've been torn over the years about the possibility that he is the bastard son of Aerys, which will actually make him a Blackfyre, which would lend even more sort to my idea that young "Aegon" is also one.

    Martin is too sly for me to commit to anything with Tyrion, although Tyrion seems easily to be one of his favorite characters and will most likely have one of the biggest roles in the endgame.

    Sam will be huge, no pun intended. He is the classic anti-hero, and I don't think that GRRM can help himself in this case.

    Shit, maybe he ends up being the PTWP or Azor Ahai at the end.

    There is so much obscurity and so many common experiences among the primary players of the books that you can attribute the prophesies that GRRM is almost doing a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

    But Sam is at the Citadel now, and while I can't even begin to understand his true role, he may end up being the most important character by the end.

    I think Bran ends up becoming The Great Other. Controlling the North, for all intents and purposes. It may end up being Dany vs Bran in the end. I also think that he consumed those two Reeds in a blood ritual that had some vague details. He is being cultivated as a sorcerer and demon.

    I think Aegon is a false flag. Blackfyre pretender. Maybe Tyrion, definitely not Jon, although I do think he is the man from Dany's dreams.

    I'm not even sure there will be two other legitimate heads of the dragon.
     
    #24 abyzmul, Jun 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  5. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I agree with both of your notions in this post. I don't think that there is anything typical in the way that this story will truly turn out.

    And I think that following the Lannisters (especially Jaime and Tyrion) has pretty much destroyed the notion that house banners can define protags and antags.
    And, yes, I know that I contradicted my own post that you quoted. I'm a dummy.
     
    #25 abyzmul, Jun 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  6. Cellar-door

    Cellar-door Active Member

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    main character doesn't necessarily mean protagonist. The Lannisters are as much of a focus of the books as the Starks, more so in many ways than the Targaryens (Dany is the only Targaryen really). They are "villains" if we want to make it into heroes v villains, but they have driven the actions of Westeros far more than anyone else. Tyrion is the character with the most POV chapters in the entire series, even with an entire book absent in AFFC (where he was reolaced with Cersei who had the most POV chapters in that book).
    The Main characters such as they are based on volume of chapters and plot importance are:
    Tyrion
    Jon
    Dany

    Those 3 are the clear dominant storylines thus far.
     
  7. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    So was Eddard Stark. Before the end of volume one.
     
  8. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you are reading too much stuff online. Why would Jon lead an army south? He knows the battle is to the north. Tyrion and Dany aren't even close to each other at the end of book 5, at least not any closer than they were at the beginning. Why would Arya be contracted to kill her brother who is dead? Sam is not the PTWP. He is training to be a Maester.
     
  9. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    Did you read DwD? Jon was going to march south.

    Or am I not remembering that correctly?
     
    #29 Cappy, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  10. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    He was going to retake Winterfell because he thought the bastard had his sister. Stannis was attacking Winterfell and Theon escaped with the fake Arya. If Stannis dies, with Theon in his party, what is the point of any of their chapters.

    There is no need for Jon to go south to save someone who isn't there that has already been saved.
     
  11. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming Jon knows/knew all of that.
     
  12. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    He is dead. How would he know any of it?
     
  13. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    You asked why Jon would lead an army south, saying he knew the battle was to the north. But he was about to lead an army south.

    Dead or not (I don't think he remains dead), he was planning on heading south. So if he's brought back, and still doesn't know that it isn't Arya (or that she had been saved), I don't see why he wouldn't continue with that plan.



    In any case, I think Tyrion definitely ends up with Dany somehow/somewhere.

    And I'd bet that there will be something in Jon's death (and/or rebirth) that will have him thinking (or have other people telling him) that he has been released from his vows.
     
  14. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    I guess we will have to see. I'm inclined to think if GRRM is trying to end these books, Jon isn't going anywhere, people are going to start to come to him.

    Then again, GRRM probably isn't trying to finish, since Sansa is going to start another rebellion up north with Littlefinger.

    The real point of all of this is GRRM let the scope of his story grow too large and there is no way he finishes.
     
  15. tanknyc

    tanknyc Active Member

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    I just started reading the books now... Question? Do all the characters names remain the same as to the Hbo show or do some names switch? So far the show has held true to the book.
     
  16. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon Active Member

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    Theon's sister Asha became Yara in the HBO series. They thought it was too close to Osha, the wildling who ends up travelling with the young Stark boys. That might be it.

    A weird problem you'll encounter is when you come across characters in the book who are combined into one person in the TV show. Gendry and Edric Storm, for instance.
     
  17. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon Active Member

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    Also, the guy who cut off Jaime's hand is called Vargo Hoat in the books (I don't even remember his name on the show) and is way more fun to read about.
     
  18. deerow84

    deerow84 Well-Known Member

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    Locke. So far that change, while ultimately not a major issue, seems among the most puzzling. Why have a character so similar to Hoat but change his name and some characteristics (I.e. the bloody mummers). Unless Locke is important later on and is another fused type character. Does anyone have an idea why?

    Unrelated question: is there an anticipated completion date for the next novel? I know GRRM is terrible for writing quickly, just wondering.
     
  19. silent scream

    silent scream Well-Known Member

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    It was probably just to save time in the show. It's easier to explain that character as Roose Bolton's hunter, rather then the leader of a group of foreign sellswords brought over by Tywin Lannister. Just a guess.
     
  20. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    ha.........HA.....HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

    The anticipated date would be in about 3-4 years (since the last one came out 2 years ago). But are there any projections...no.
     

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