So you are saying that Muhammad Wilkerson; Kyle Wilson; Joe McKnight; Mark Sanchez; Shonn Greene; and Dustin Keller are all throw away picks? Since 2007 yes we had Gholston but other than that we haven't selected a bust. Plus you have to factor in Cro and Holmes as they were traded for draft picks.
And how many times a year is Revis' $12 million/year salary matched up against $20m Wide Receivers? The game is still 10 on 10 at that point.
Not often granted however having a 10 on 10 is never ever a bad thing for the defense. And you know what - teams out there are still silly enough to try to throw at Revis every now and then - very rarely anything other than a positive result for the Jets.
Pittsburgh Steelers 2008: Rashard Mendenhall, Dennis Dixon, Ryan Mundy 2009: Ziggy Hood, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, David Johnson 2010: Maurkice Pouncey, Jason Worilds, Emmanuelle Sanders, Stevenson Sylvester, Jonathan Dwyer, Antonio Brown 2011: Cameron Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, Curtis Brown, Cortez Allen Those guys are all playing significant snaps for the Steelers, some starters, some rotational players, some special teamers. That's what the Jets are competing with. Getting 7 guys that play since 2008 is pathetic compared to that. It doesn't matter if the Jets added a couple of players in trades for picks. Those guys came way more expensive than the Steelers guys on the cap and they're no better on the field. Drafting Mike Wallace was worth a lot more than trading for Santonio Holmes and then bloating the cap right away to keep him. Drafting Antonio Brown in the 6th round was worth more than trading a 5th for Holmes. This is why the Steelers are head and shoulders above the Jets and will be until the Jets stop acting like a reality show and start acting like a football team. And for people sayng it's all about Ben Roethlisberger: the Steelers are 4-2 in games not started by Big Ben since 2008. They're just a really good football team that knows how to put things together to stay at the elite level. The Jets need to learn some things from them - it'll only help the team moving forward.
My point is that more often than not the WR will command double coverage making it 10 on 9 where a corner can't cover 2 guys at once. I think corners are valuable, but not 12million a year valuable.
By that logic then having Revis could count as having two guys on the field since he doesn't need help against receivers that normally draw double coverage. The point is its an extra point of pressure against opposing offenses. He's not simply one high paid guy out there he changes the entire dynamic of the opposing offense. He allows the Jets defense to hold the initiative. He's not an I-Win button but nobody in the NFL is; not even the best Quarterbacks. It's still a team sport.
4 points really: - according to my count we have 9 players that play, not 7 (and that doesn't count players now playing for other teams like Lowery). - you have listed every player that they have taken that plays, I limited it to our "top selections" and didn't list players like Slauson, Kerley or Connor. - the Steelers are usually viewed as being the best team at drafting, so its not really a fair comparison to make - if you put our selections up against most any other team and it will not seem so different. - we would likely have had more but gave up some draft picks to trade up for Sanchez (it hasnt panned out to date but you cannot fault the team for making that move)
CB contract average last year compared to teams records: 1. Nnamdi Asomugha, $12M, Eagles, 8-8 2. Darrelle Revis, $11.5M, Jets, 8-8 3. Champ Bailey, $10.75M, Broncos, 8-8 4. Brent Grimes, $10.281M, Falcons, 10-6 5. Charles Woodson, $10M, Packers 15-1 6. Cortland Finnegan, $10M, Titans, 9-7 7. Brandon Flowers, $9.755M, Chiefs, 7-9 8. Jonathan Joseph. $9.75M, Texans, 10-6 9. Asante Samuel, $9.523M, Eagles, 8-8 10. Dunta Robinson, $9.5M, Falcons, 10-6 11. Deangelo Hall, $9M, Redskins, 5-11 12. Chris Gamble, $8.916M, Panthers 6-10 13. Lardarius Webb, $8.79M, Ravens 12-4 14. Corey Webster, $8.7M, Giants, 9-7 15. Tramon Williams, $8.25M, Packers, 15-1 16. Joe Haden, $ 8.01M, 49ers, 13-3 17. Antonio Cromartie, $8M, Jets, 8-8 18. Eric Wright, $7.6M, Lions, 10-6 19. Carlos Rogers, $7.325M, 49ers, 13-3 20. Ike Taylor, $7M, Steelers, 12-4 21. Charles Tillman, $6.16M, Bears, 8-8 22. Stanford Routt, $6M, Raiders, 8-8 23. Jabari Greer, $5.5M, Saints 13-3 24. Quentin Jammer, $5.49M, Chargers 8-8 25. Richard Marshall, $5.33M, Cardinals 8-8 26. Nate Clements, $5.25M, Bengals, 10-6 27. Drayton Florence, $5M, Bills, 6-10 28. Sheldon Brown, $4.867M, Browns, 4-12 29. Andre Goodman, $4.561M, Broncos, 8-8 30. Josh Wilson, $4.5M, Redskins, 5-11 31. Tracy Porter, $4M, Saints, 13-3 32. Ronde Barber, $3M, Bucs, 4-12 33. Chris Houston, $3M, Lions, 10-6 What this list tells us is what teams like the Steelers and Ravens and Giants and Saints already knew: that as long as you have good talent in the defensive backfield you don't need to have stars to win a lot of games. There are multiple pairs of starters on this list and this is how they stack up: Eagles - Asomugha and Samuel, $21.523M, 8-8 Falcons - Grimes and Robinson, $19.781M, 10-6 Jets - Revis and Cromartie, $19.5M, 8-8 Packers - Woodson and Williams, $18,25M, 15-1 49ers - Haden and Rogers, $15.326M, 13-3 Broncos - Bailey and Goodman, $15.311M, 8-8 Redskins - Hall and Wilson, $13.5M, 5-11 Lions - Wright and Houston, $10.6M, 10-6 Saints - Greer and Porter, $9.5M, 13-3 Neither of the Super Bowl teams from last season is on that list. There's very little correlation between paying superstar money for CB's and winning at an elite level in the NFL. The two teams with the most titles over the last 6 years as the trend towards a passing league has accelerated haven't had a dominant corner between them in that span. Paying somebody top end money to play CB for you is like carrying an extra weight into the competition because by extension you can't afford to pay people at more impactful positions top end money.
^sometimes I hate statistics. Where we apply pressure on the quarterback Revis and Cromartie and wilson find 6.
It's not a question of statistics really it's just common sense. The closer a player is to the ball and the more often he is tested the more valuable he is in the greater scheme of things. Revis value was the greatest in 2009 when the Jets defensive scheme was all out blitzing and double-covering the #2 WR, forcing the opposing QB to decide very quickly what he was going to do with the ball. For most QB's that was throw to the single covered guy who also happened to be the #1 WR. Revis value was truly great in that situation because he faced more than 100 passes, ranking like 4th in the NFL in attempts at him despite being by far the best CB in the NFL that year. His value was still only about the level of a great front 7 player though because those guys are tested routinely 100 times a year. Then the NFL figured out what Rex was doing, thanks Bill Belichik and Peyton Manning, and they started using 3 and 4 WR's routinely against the Jets "great" pass defense. That created mismatch problems elsewhere and so the scheme got junked because all the guys double-covering the #2 guy and blitzing were now needed to cover the 3rd and 4th WR instead. Since then Revis value to the Jets has declined a lot, mainly because if he's only going to be tested 50 or 60 times a year his opportunity to make plays goes down and the other guys are killing the Jets while he has his guy locked down anyway. You'd never suggest trading the 2009 Darrelle Revis because he was maybe the best defensive player in the NFL that year. The problem is that the scheme worked heavily to create that situation and the scheme was ultimately flawed. Right now there's a sweet spot for the Jets where Revis value in trade is probably greater than his actual value on the field. Hopefully that sweet spot will still be here after 2012 and the Jets don't get caught in the vice of letting Revis walk in free agency for very little compensation or alternately paying him twice as much as he is worth and thereby degrading the team in the process.
While he isn't being tested quite as often, I won't go as far as to say his value has declined a lot. We don't know if Revis is being maximized by Rex or how Rex specifically uses him to create advantages for the rest of the defense. We don't how many times a QB went to throw in Revis' direction and hesitated leading to a mistake or throw away. All that stuff doesn't show up on the stats, so while Revis might be getting thrown at less, he still could be having as great as an impact on a game a CB can have. Basically, I agree that impact CB's are not needed and a talented front 7 is more important, but I think you are downplaying Revis
It's very hard to downplay Revis. Most games he's the most talented player on the field. The question is whether that means anything or not against a great team and my opinion is that it really doesn't at that point. A great team will find a way to get around a great cornerback if that's what the opposition puts in their path. You can't get around a great NT or DT or DE or OLB or S because you have to sacrifice too much, give up too much of the field to try to get around them. A great cornerback on the other hand just requires small sacrifices. A team that is completely dependent on their QB and #1 WR? By definition that's not a great team.
Out of that group, Wilkerson and last years draft is a little early to say. But, yeah, I'll throw Sanchez back, never wanted him, Just like on draft day I'd still take Josh Freeman at the original spot over trading UP for Mark. I could get a Shonn Greene just about anywhere - (Tolbert - M Bush).. Keller - Nice but, not elite. Kyle Wilson - No where near what Rex raved about... Nice nickel guy but, so far not worthy of the hype at all. Mcknight - puhlease.
One game is one game and two long throws is not even one game. The Broncos offense last year was a two-trick pony: run the ball a lot, with the QB handling some of the runs and then throw deep. If you throw deep against an isolated defender you have a lot of potential to make plays. That's what the Broncos did during the season and it's what they did to the Steelers AT HOME in Milehigh Stadium. People forget that the game was in Denver.
mediocre safties/cornerbacks look good when your defenses front 7 is in the QB's face within seconds. S/CB's can only cover someone for so long until the QB finds an open receiver. I'm not for trading Revis, but I'm not against it either. If we could drastically improve our pass rush (by trading him), I'd be open offers, but the price would be high.
I wouldn't freak over an OL Pick. And I know some Trade UPs have been good, like Revis but, overall I've been looking at the Draft for a lot of years and used to study the PFW Joel Buchsbaum Grades back in the day.... Deep down I'm a TRADE DOWN guy for value and it just kills me to watch the hated Patriots work the draft just like I would for the most part though I do think at some points with so much draft equity they should move up and stand for a top Talent..... The Gholston Draft when the Pats got Mayo was pure Ass-kickin as well as the Dewayne Robertson deal where the Jets moved UP and the Pats moved back and still got a better DT was just Brutal. They draft laps around us. All that said, In this Draft my guy is Mark Barron and has been for a long while.... He's plug and Play, has played FS and SS in NFL style Defense and fills a huge need since I can't see Landry lasting a season - Landry to me is our new Kris Jenkins. Barron could be tremendous in a rotation with landry AND Leonard at both safety spots where he can learn from 2 real good vets and next year the Jets will STILL need a Safety anyway!!!! Face it, if Landry is any good He is leaving for big $$$$$ The desperation we have at Safety is off the charts - I kinda hope the Jets are downplaying it and not talking up Barron because they are going to run to the podium if he's still on the board.
Yeah, the problem with filling holes via short-term free agents is that the moves are usually cap-foolish in the long run. Either the guy is really good and the flyer turns into a need to spend top dollar to retain the guy or he's on the way out, which is why he took a flyer contract in the first place. What the Jets haven't done much of lately is to get mid-round guys who then give good performance under the original cap-friendly cap for several years before the need to re-up them. There are guys that come into the league every year playing at a high level and they're taken in every round. The Jets don't get those guys for the most part because they exercise so few draft picks and for whatever reason do not develop players well when they do draft them. The last guys the Jets drafted who came into the NFL playing at a high level were Darrelle Revis and David Harris. That's 5 years ago now. That's a lifetime in the NFL and that's why the Jets are headed over a cliff. It's not that they don't have some good players and even a few great ones but the incoming talent over the last 4 years has not been remotely close to the level needed to sustain excellence. 2010 was the high water mark. Now the good free agents are aging out and the drafted guys have not replaced them. I think it's going to get very ugly next year.
the cb market isnt nearly as inflated as it was a few years ago ... revis wont have a leg to stand on if hes looking to be the highest paid defensive player in the league p.s. dick cimini is a hack
