still dont get it ... i understand not believing this guy will pan out to be an elite player, but all this bust talk going on lately is completely unwarranted
The entire point of this thread was for me to explain why I don't see Jerry Hughes as a good fit in our defense...that's all. I don't feel like looking it up, but I did a lot of research when I was the Ravens' GM in the TGG mock. Rex Ryan likes big, powerful OLBs. Suggs is a big, wide-bodied, relentless pass rusher that doesn't rely on one specific attribute. Gholston relies on the bull rush. Hughes relies on speed. Everson Griffen, who looks like a great fit in the 43, has a lot of different ways to get to the quarterback. He reminds me of Suggs in that way. If we're going to take an end that's going to have to transition to OLB, I'd like Griffen.
Put me on the anti list. I watched a bunch of his stuff this weekend and can't see him working in our 3-4. Good first step, not much else.Doesn't look like he would be an easy transition to LB either.
He'll be a beast of a pass rusher in the 4-3. Maybe the Giants get him to replace Osi. Can't have too many DEs that do fuck all against the run.
i get your take, and im not talking about this thread in particular ... im talking about all the other comments made in a lot of threads just bashing this guy with no opinion to back it up this was the first hughes thread that came up in the search
...but, but, but he looked so good in linebacker drills! Hughes looked great against mediocre-at-best competition. TCU, Utah, and BYU are miles ahead of every team in the Mountain West. That scheme that TCU runs makes their players look incredible.
You're the one questioning the different opinions. I think you should tell us what you like about him. The debate begins now!
that whole video is watching hughes either run around the RT or him getting stood up with no real attempts to break away.... that is not good practice from a pass rushing prospect...
haha cool! i like his motor, production (while being the focus of the o-line), 10 yard split and his overall athleticism ... he also seems to use his hands well to shed blockers and actually has a few moves (unlike someone on the jets roster) what i dont like that hes only 250ish and he hasnt played olb but he walked into college @ 200 lbs and without a position and became an all-american DE ... combine that type of effort with his athleticism and i think he has the tools to make the transition
Hughes has a hell of a motor and you can tell he has great conditioning. I don't like his hand use. I really didn't see him shed blocks either. On most run plays, Hughes will get completely driven out of the play. That's a huge concern for me. If he's getting pushed around by tackles in the Mountain West, then imagine what it'll be like for him in the NFL. The guy's got a great first step and he beat a lot guys around the corner. However, these linemen that he was getting around are right tackles in the MWC. The majority of the guys he faced have no future at all at the next level. To me, he really doesn't have too many pass rushing moves. He relies on his speed, and that won't cut it in the NFL. I'm not saying he can't learn new moves and develop into a more complete player, but it's highly unlikely. He'd be a project if he came to New York. That's not what this team needs. Hughes was a recruited to play running back, so it's obvious that he has great athleticism.
yea, i didnt dig that a lot of his film is against RT's. and i would have a bigger problem with his reliance on his speed move if his screen recognition wasnt better, but he looked very good on film at diagnosing those i really only saw hughes getting driven out of run plays on double teams, but his one on one matchups were against inferior talent one of the jets needs this year is a situational pass rusher. if taylor signs i dont want to go olb early anyway, but if he doesnt, i think hughes gives us that situational rusher plus the ability to develop into a full time starter at the position in the future
Haven't read through the entire thread, but the fact is that Rex used a 4-3 base last year as much or more as he used a 3-4.....if you go back and watch the tape you'll see a large percentage of plays in which one of Thomas or Pace line up with their hand on the ground, with Scott sliding over to the OLB. If we drafted Hughes, he'd be likely used as a situational pass rusher when we're using the 3-4 base (in place of Bryan Thomas, who was excellent against the run last year, and would play 1st and 2nd, or rushing downs)........and he's play almost exclusively as the additional end in our 4-3 base. In a traditional 3-4 defense, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP's stance........but in a Rex system (which will also likely be incorporating the 46 even more next year)....Hughes would still be incredibly valuable as a rushing end, or a situational pass rushing 3-4 OLB.
I have a question-- You have said many times Hughes will be a successful 4-3 end, but he is just not suited for 3-4 olb. With the issues you list - bad hands, disappearing against the run, relies on speed, no rush moves, played against bogus right tackles, how does that translate into a good 4-3 end? Those flaws are even MORE detrimental for a 4-3 end becase he is lining up directly in front of a 325lb tackle. If he's not a good player because he's undersized and played weak teams, and relies on his speed, wouldn't you think that playing in space at OLB would be the ONLY way he could succede in the NFL?
You know, there are a lot of knocks on "highlight video" analysis, but you can see a lot of that by watching the highlight videos, if you know what you're looking for. I watch Graham from Michigan on the highlights and I am very impressed with his leverage and the way he attacks the quarterback. He seems very polished to me. I have no reservations that he'll be, at the very least, a good starter. He does a good job distinguishing run and pass and is adept at defending both. Hughes seems to rely on the John Abraham approach, which produces mixed results. Guys who can get by on athleticism at the college level can't necessarily get by on it in the pros, unless they have superior coverage behind them. Abraham's best season's on the Jets were marked by tons of coverage sacks. Very rarely would he outmaneuver a solid offensive tackle. He might be good, or he might be another in a long line of TCU guys who put up big numbers and do little in the pros. -X-
I agree wholeheartedly xjets.......I'm not a big fan of making big conclusions from highlight videos, but if you watch enough tape of Brandon Graham, there's no way you can come away thinking he'll be anything less than a very good starter. Kids a damn near clone of Lamarr Woodley, and I won't be surprised in the least if he has a near identical career path...(although it might take Graham one year longer to break out, as Woodley had some experience playing as a OLB, where as Graham played all the time with a hand down) Graham is one of the very very few players I'd actually be on board with Tannenbaum trading up to land.
Gholston always had Motor questions, Hughes doesn't. That comparison is completely off base. As for his height? He's 6'3, 255-265 (depending on the site), good speed, little coverage skill shown (or called upon), short arms....Pretty much describes Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs and those attributes served DT pretty well over his career. Not saying Hughs will be of Thomas's impact in the NFL of course, that'd be foolish as Thomas, Like Lawrence Taylor, were rare players in their transitions to the NFL. But I'll be honest here, when I've seen Hughes play his tools most resemble Thomas's, though thomas had abit more speed and abit more strength coming out of the draft. Thomas was never a good cover LB, never a great OLB against the run, though he developed into a good OLB against the run, but he was a terror to QB's and anyone in the Backfield. And quite FRankly, that is exactly the type of player the Jets need on this defense, I don't care if he's only a rush LB, as long as he's a good Rush OLB. Unlike Gholston, to whom you make a circle round comparison here, I've read very few scouts who regard Hughes as a risk. None consider him top 10-15 Talent, But if he was considered a top 10-15 talent we wouldn't be discussing him as a possibility at #29.
Derrick Thomas is a bit of a reach. The guy had 27 sacks in a single season at Alabama. Thomas was an ahead of his time physical talent. I don't think anyone compares to him right now. His edge quickness was unparalleled. I think Hughes is a very quick guy, but I think that's his game. I don't see much in the way of strength or bull-rush moves when I watch his highlights. He seems to have good awareness, but there's more to success at the NFL level. -X-
