:rofl: I believe that's the first time anyone has used that for filler. 10 internetz to you sir. ........and it took me a good 6 seconds to get it.
Unfortunately, I can't take credit for that. I think I got it from rmagedon and someone else - I think rmagedon or WSW - used it in the last couple of days.
Yes I did. Sorry to Green Hurricane. He doesn't post as often as the other two, but he is just as valuable. Jabba offers a lot as well.
I think his point was not that he shouldn't be taken seriously, but that his opinion (or anyone else's, for that matter) shouldn't be mistaken for fact simply because they spend a good deal of time watching football or contributing on a forum. Kiper (as one example) lives and breathes NFL scouting, but I have no doubt he's f***ed up many prospect analyses over the years. I wonder where he had Ryan Leaf rated back in '98. All these guys deserve credit and appreciation for what they contribute. That's obvious. But, to be frank, it seems many here just hop on their opinions simply for lacking the ability to form their own.
I agree with ya here. It good to have these and many of the other more involved draftniks around. That does not mean we have to take thier word at as fact. MrE and I know we agree to disagree about players and its cool. As long is it does not degrade into a "you know how fucking stupid you are" type of thing I enjoy the back and fourth about a players strength's and weaknesses.
Back to the actual debate again As for short arms, Hughes came in at 33" Brandon Graham - 32 1/4 Jason Pierre-Paul - 34 3/4 Everson Griffen - 32 5/8 Eric Norwood - 33 3/8 Sergio Kindle - 33 1/4" Ricky Sapp - 34 1/2 Koa Misi - 32 1/2 3 there have shorter arms, Kindle is within a 1/4' Inch and Norwood 3/8" . Only Sapp and JPP have a serious reach advantage. Hughes also was reportedly great in the linebacker drills showing fluid hips and good change of direction. Hughes shuttle was best among the DE's and would have been third among the LB's. His cone run was in line with similarly sized LB's and 4 among DE's. Add that to 26 reps and a 9'10" broad jump and it was by in large a good week for the young man. Now we all know combine numbers do not make the player. Hughes has had two productive years at the NCAA level. Displayed a great first step and speed off the edge on game film. No he's not the most stout player against the run, but as an OLB he would be second level against is not point of attack taking on Offensive line men every play. All players coming out have some flaws and this is his worst. No he's never played coverage. Nor had Thomas, or Pace before they were converted. Same goes for many tweener prospect that transition to the NFL as 34 outside backers. I think he will end up as a wonderful rush OLB or a 43 end. He only did things to help himself out this week.
Considering some of the horrifically stupid ideas that I've seen over the years, there are worse things than jumping on the opinions of those who have put in serious time to develop their own. Do random message board posters have the resources that guys like Kiper and McShay do? Absolutely not, but the ones that really care put in the effort to exhaust every source they do have. Is what these people say fact? No, but no one thinks that it is. They are, however, highly developed opinions with a base in reality. If the choices are to see people here following whatever thoughts pop into their heads vs. listening to people that actually aspire to know what they're talking about, I'll take the latter option every time. Everyone doesn't have to agree with guys like myself, Mr. E, WW, Jabba, etc., but then they damn well better be able to back up their points effectively.
I'm not referring to people who pop into threads and make points on topics they have zero knowledge of. Those types fall into the category of inadvertent trolls. I'm referring to people who pop into threads on topics they have zero knowledge of, and then proceed to adopt the opinions of others just because said others have a "good track record" or speak with authority. This only fattens the herd, and contributes nothing to the whole purpose of a forum - thoughtful discussion. And there are very few worse things than jumping on the opinions of others, regardless of how right/wrong that opinion may be. Advocating this is like advocating the degradation of society's will to think. Either take the time to think, form your own perspective on a subject, or just abstain. Again, you guys seem to put a lot of time and effort into forming your own analyses on many draft prospects, which clearly makes your value to this forum enormous. But others should be developing their own conclusions on a subject, not creating a snowball effect on an opinion that may or may not be wrong.
I think you're issue is with seeing opinions as potentially "wrong". Opinions here on the draft forum and when discussing draft prospects are very rarely right or wrong, that's just not possible. This is the reason that people develop such passionate opinions and have such over the top arguments here, because anyone can have and defend an opinion that they see as being "right". They're all projections. I don't really like taking this to a societal level, because it's a whole different animal. After all, it's a lot easier to buy into Mr. E's opinion of Linval Joseph as a hybrid 34 DE / NT from reading an argument than it is to take on his opinions about health care reform. That said, in all aspects of life we depend on other people to help research things that we don't have the power/time to do ourselves. In the case of many draft forum posters, they rely on certain other posters to guide them in this way through the process, and place them on the path to draft enlightenment. Would the ideal world be a place where everyone has widely developed opinions on draft prospects, and every disagreement turned into a healthy, intelligent debate? Yeah, that'd be great. However, I don't really mind seeing people learn about the draft and prospects from what they read here, because I'll hope that they'll take this knowledge and eventually develop these opinions of their own.
Sounds an awful lot like you never watched him play.. at all. The Ghost was labeled as a power rusher who was somewhat stiff in the hips. Hughes is more of a speed rusher who appeared fluid as could be in all the LBer drills. Even hughes detractors around here acknowledge he has good pass rush skills.
I take many of the TGG draft guys' opinions very seriously. It's all part of evaluating a player from my perspective. I'm not a huge college football fan. I watch some of it, but I get most of my perspective reading what everybody has to say and forming conclusions from there. And nobody knows for sure what's going to happen in the draft. I remember when Jabba was pumping up Bryan Thomas as a beastly pass rusher. For a few years, that looked terrible, but now he's a solid LB. Some players will be stars, some will be busts, and most will be in between. Predicting how players will translate from college to the pros is a process. You could do all the work you want on someone, but that only goes so far. It's really just an extremely educated guess based on all the knowledge available. And predicting which 4-3 DEs can pick up the 3-4 OLB spot and which won't is even harder. I don't know much about Hughes other than that he was productive in college. After Gholston, I'm wary of people with no experience in the 3-4. For all Mr. E knows, Hughes could be a star. It's his strong opinion Hughes won't be, at least not for the Jets. We'll find out years from now if he's correct. I'm just glad we have people who know more than I do about these prospects who share their knowledge. You don't have to agree. Just be prepared to argue and bring facts to the table, just like Harpua is doing now.
Hughes certainly is a good pass rusher, but other than that he gives us no versatility. He can't line up at 3-4 end, he can't move inside, and he'll be a liability in coverage. I'm not saying he can't evolve into a more all-around player, but the odds are against him. I never compared Gholston to Hughes in terms of style of play. However, they are similar in that they will have to make a transition to another position. I didn't think Gholston could do it, and now I don't think Hughes can. Remember Harp, they're just drills. Hughes was one of the more athletic ends in this year's class, so it was easy for him to stand out against this class.
Yep no doubt. Thats the rub with the 34. Most of the very good pass rushing prospect that come out are Ends in school. The transition is not easy and takes some time. From the couple games I watched of TCU I think he's a guy that could make the adjustment. He has the physical tools and needs to be coached up. His ability to turn the corner on the pass rush you jsut can't teach though. Its Freeny and Mathis like when he bends and retains balance as he does coming of the edge. Its what we lack the most is speed off the edge and thus my love for him as a prospect.
I've been comparing him to Robert Mathis for a while. I think Hughes can develop into a very good 4-3 pass rusher. I just see him as a more of a 4-3 end. I think he could contribute in the 3-4, but I don't want to spend a first rounder on a developmental guy that may never become an elite player in this scheme.
Anti Fresno State Thread I would Never have drafted any of these fags David Carr Trent Dilfer Billy Volek Derick Ward James Sanders Logan Manknis Pittman Bryan Robinson The rational behind this is, they play ion the WACC. BS
I'm just messing with you Mr. E I agree with your analysis of Hughes to Mathis and Babbin. He could however be a Harrison/Woodly type. I do like him but in the 2nd and he wont be there then
