Another Mahomes take

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I am in almost total agreement with your posts in this thread, but I disagree with the idea of taking McCaffrey over Adams. McCaffrey looked to be a very good player/prospect, but Adams was a potential HOFer imo and a leader. The Jets needed both. Adams was a much better prospect than McCaffrey. Even if it had been using their #1 pick on an offensive playmaker, I would have been upset with passing over Adams to take a lesser player in McCaffrey. McCaffrey has proven to be better than I thought at the time, but I still think that Adams is the better player and the better choice for the Jets at the time if they weren't going to take Mahomes or Watson.
     
  2. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    Maybe the failure with Hackenberg is what showed they could not develop a QB at the time.
     
  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. Compare the contribution that McCaffrey has made to Adams - a bigger impact for sure. And that's no surprise because a Safety isn't going to have the same impact as someone like McCaffrey. I'm not saying by that that it was an egregious failure to not take McCaffrey as I have said about skipping Mahomes and Watson, just that I would've preferred some attention given to the offense for a change, and I think that would've made a bigger impact. For one thing, the Jets would not have signed Bell for a huge contract, and even though I like Bell, that money could've been spent on OL or Edge.
     
  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Hey, no one ever said that we had to agree ALL of the time. I think 99.99% agreement is pretty good! LOL McCaffrey is a great player, but I don't know that he is a leader, and the Jets needed some young leaders in the locker room to change the culture. That and the fact that RBs usually shouldn't be taken that high are the reasons why I wanted Adams over McCaffrey or any other offensive player not named Mahomes.

    I totally understand your wanting to give the offense some love for a change. That's why even though I think Chaisson is a good edge-rushing prospect and we have a desperate need for an edge rusher, I'll be upset if Douglas takes him over Jeudy or Lamb or one of the OTs. I also think that they are better prospects than Chaisson, but even if they weren't, I'd still want offense over yet another defensive pick.
     
  5. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    You touch on something people are ignoring when talking about Adams. He is a leader and his character is as high as any athlete in any professional sport. I am sure this played a big role. He signed a million autographs and did help recruit Mosely and Bell. If the Jets extend Adams he has the chance to be the best player in the history of the franchise.
     
  6. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    yup things like that don't show up on film but he makes everyone around him better and sets an example with his play and talk. he's a culture changer. our D played way above their talent level this season and adams is a big part of it. how many players revived their career or had career years with us since adams has been here.
     
  7. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    This is why I have no issue with his being drafted over Mahomes. If he stays healthy he is a Gold Jacket guy and I can't get mad about drafting a future Hall of Famer. Mahomes is on a team that traded up to get him, he was immediately on a winner- they had a ton of talent at the skill positions and he was able to sit for a year under a Hall of Fame coach. The bad decision related to a QB is drafting Hackenberg- not passing on Mahomes.

    To be clear- I think Todd Bowles is a nice guy and good man- you want Todd Bowles coaching your kids in high school because he sets an example of what a man should be. I can't say enough good things about his character. He is one of the best defensive coordinators of the past 25 years. He was also a pretty good NFL player with an unmatched work ethic. This is a good and accomplished man. All this said he is an awful NFL head coach. HC is not the spot for him and he will tell you he is the last person you want developing a QB. Get him alone and he will tell you he shouldn't have been kept on after drafting Darnold and he spent the year trying not to screw him up for the next guy. Coach will tell you he is not Andy Reid.
     
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  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    bowles is a good DC who wasn't fit to be a HC. just like rex. nothing wrong with that. i like him and wish him the best in TB
     
  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time a Safety was named NFL MVP for a season? Hint: The next time it happens will be the FIRST time it happens.

    Yes, Adams is a great player and good character (AFAIK), but he will NEVER have the impact of a FQB. It's a nice "consolation prize" that he's panned out so far, as opposed to some of the massive busts the Jets have had with #1 picks, but that doesn't mean it was the right decision.
     
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  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    to be fair 90% of the time it goes to "best QB"
    i haven't seen an o-lineman ever win MVP so is o-line not important? same goes for WR or CB. every once in a blue moon with a monster year a RB or pass rusher gets consideration but typically it's always a QB. here is a list of non QBs to win MVP in the past 30 years

    2012 RB peterson (broke 2k yards and broke the single game rushing record that year only like 3 RBs ever broke 2k yards)
    2006 RB LT (broke the TD record)
    2005 RB Shaun Alexander
    2000 RB marshall faulk
    1998 RB TD
    1997 RB barry sanders
    1993 RB emmit smith
    1991 RB thurman thomas

    hell aaron donald didn't win one, strahan didn't win one when braking the sack record. it's been 8 RBs and 22 Qbs in the past 30 years. in the past 10 it's been 9 QBs and 1 RB. last time any defensive player won it was Lawrence Taylor in 1986

    so by your theory RB is more important then any position that isn't a QB
     
  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It can be, depending on the RB. Certainly the game has changed, going away from a running game to a pass-oriented league, thus reducing the impact of a RB, still, look at the Titans for a recent great example where the RB made all the difference. A RB touches the ball far more than a Safety does, so on that alone they have more of a potential impact.

    I stand by my POV - Safety will never be the most critical position on the team...at least on a winning team.
     
  12. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    I'm tired of hearing about Mahomes.

    We drafted Jamal Adams who could end up becoming a generational and H.O.F defensive leader and already the greatest all around Jets defensive player that I've seen throughout my generation outside of Darrell Revis. And what's scary is that he's still developing at a rapid pace. He's more than "just a safety". He's a game changer who's able to literally do it all within the form of playing close to the L.O.S, causing havoc behind the line of scrimmage with tackles for loss, a great one on one tackler and a hard hitter, tough, aggressive, able to blitz and pressure opposing QB's with pass rushers from the outside or right up the gap and he's relentless when in pursuit, can be utilized against elite opposing TE's, he's been lined up on the inside at nickel/dime against slot receivers @ corner too and he's able to drop back into coverage when asked to roam the secondary and/or used as a dog in coverage over the middle of the field; he's pure greatness and no GM was selecting Mahomes over Adams heading into the draft. Plenty of reports had Adams #1 and none had outside the top 5. Mahomes was never considered #1 overall worthy, Jamal Adams was and rightfully so.

    And what makes the selection of Jamal Adams greatness is that just the following draft we landed Sam freaking Darnold and I'm taking Sam Darnold + Jamal Adams over Patrick Mahomes (and whoever else they took the next year)....

    Because I'm not going to sit here blindly and pretend that Mahomes drafted by a losing Jets franchise, without as many fire power offensive weapons as KC's given him and unlike KC's offensive line being forced to Quarterback behind crappy/makeshift and historically bad NFL offensive line(s) that he would've flourished if drafted over Adams. Not to mention Mahomes is a scrambling Quarterback who extends plays with his legs behind pass protection; with his backyard style of play he'd have no chance behind these O-Lines the Jets have thrown out there since he's been drafted into the league.

    You can not convince me that Mahomes would be putting up better production than Darnold has if drafted a Jet, because as a Jet he would've been drafted into a disaster. Take his KC weapons away from him. Put him behind NYs O-Lines. Take away Andy Reid and put him with Bowles/Gase with two different playbooks/offensive systems etc and if you truly believe that you'd be talking about Patrick Mahomes as you're complimenting of as today you're either liar or lack common sense. It's a miracle Sam Darnold has looked as good as he has under shitty circumstances and Jamal Adams was and is and will always be, a great pick.

    You Mahomes fan boys who completely ignore Darnold/Adams when talking "Patrick Mahomes" make me want to root for San Francisco. So I can say that Defense Wins Championships.

    Let's see how Patrick Mahomes deals with and performs against an elite 49ers Defense who's ranked #1 against the pass while coming out of an NFC conference featuring nothing but high powered and high octane passing attacks. This San Francisco defense is #1 against the pass this thread will become epic when San Francisco's Defense makes Mahomes look just like Mahomes would've looked if drafted by the Jets.
     
  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    FIFY.

    And BTW: Defense does NOT win championships in the modern NFL.
     
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  14. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I love slipping your user name as a catch phrase into your posts. What a boss move.
     
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  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    It does and it doesn't though. I don't think the blanket statement that it doesn't is completely true.

    Balance wins championships more than ever. Situational quarterback play and 3rd down defense are just as important as holding teams down in yardage gained. But we've seen a number of defense oriented teams win.

    2018 Patriots
    2014 Broncos
    2013 Seahawks

    2012 Ravens
    2008 Steelers
    2005 Steelers
    2004 Patriots
    2002 Buccaneers
    2000 Ravens


    Say what you want about Eli (I think he's better than given credit for) but the Giants defense getting hot is a huge reason why they beat Brady 2x.

    That's at least half the teams in our lifetime, with the bold extremely defense oriented.
     
  16. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    The misfire was drafting Hackenberg with an early 2nd round pick and committing to him going into 2017 even though he didn't show shit. As great as Adams is and will be, the pick should've been Watson. Nobody knew Mahomes would be that good.

    As for Jackson, I wanted us to take Barkley or Nelson at 6 and trade back up for Jackson like Baltimore did, but the situation he went to in Baltimore was perfect for him. They build the team FOR him, he wouldn't have been MVP on the Jets.
     
  17. azhar80

    azhar80 Well-Known Member

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    Simply put... There was a reason teams were tanking/sucking for Sam. I did not hear anyone say Suck for Pat.
    Just saying...
     
  18. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Exactly. Not only that but Jamal Adams was deserving of the #1 overall pick heading into the draft and top 5 on every experts top 5; Patrick Mahomes wasn't on any GMs top 5 big board, let alone being considered as #1 overall worthy.

    Only Jet fans could knock Jamal Adams/Sam Darnold back to back.

    Stop freaking pretending that Patrick Mahomes drafted as a Jet would even closely resemble the Mahomes of KC who A.) Was drafted into a great KC O-Line instead of a horrific Jets O-Line(s). B.) Drafted into a losing franchise with two different coaches in Bowles and Gase. C.) Drafted into an offense full of fire power with KC instead of a Jets offense in search of playmakers for generations now. With Mahomes backyard style of play who extends plays with his legs he would look like complete dog shit with no o line and a lack of explosive weapons and without Andy Reid. Stop it already.

    Mind boggling lol.
     
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  19. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    and i'll go a bit further.....i bet your bolded teams didn't pick first round DT's like drunken sailors. LOL
     
  20. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Casey Hampton and Warren Sapp both say hello (for starters).
     

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