I trust your knowledge of OL and OL play over mine, so if you say that there will be good C prospects next year, I believe you. That still doesn't solve this year. I don't think you draft a player for just one season, either, and never said I thought one should, so that's a bit of a strawman argument. I don't think the Jets would be, nor do I see it as a "panic pick" to take one of the top 3 C prospects. I have seen Bradbury rated as a bottom of the 1st round/2nd round pick. I have seen McCoy and Jenkins listed as possible 2nd or 3rd round picks. I think all 3 are worthy C prospects and it wouldn't be for just one season. One of them would be our long term C. You know as well as I that once a team drafts a player at a position where there aren't a lot of good prospects, a rush on them happens, especially on the OL, because there is a shortage of quality OL in the NFL. This results in their being overdrafted, just like it does QBs, LTs and perhaps even edge rushers. That's the cost of doing business. IMO you can't shy away from that. You overpay in FA too. Yes, there's a chance that the center isn't ready to start anyway due to the reasons you mentioned or he could get injured. Maybe the specter of having a draft pick pushes Harrison to work harder than before or a light goes on for him that didn't before, or maybe he sees this as his chance to be a starter in the NFL and he plays above his head. That may not have happened if we didn't draft a center. I didn't say anything about drafting a marginal player. I spoke about getting one of the top 3 C prospects. I don't have any interest in taking a C after those 3. I'd rather sign Sullivan, Sitton and have him play C, or perhaps a camp cut. You didn't answer my question regarding Sam's getting injured because we don't have a starting caliber C.
The Cardinals should absolutely draft Murray. They may not draft Murray because the GM traded up to pick Rosen and is invested in the pick. That's why I think there is a real power struggle between the GM and Head Coach. The best that can be said is they have both kept their intentions internal. If the Cardinals draft Bosa it will be an incredible dumb pick. The Cardinals highest paid player who is an elite pass rusher is Chandler Jones. He's in his prime and tied up. The right move for them is take Murray or trade down.
They would be loaded at edge rush for years if they drafted Bosa, however. It would be a nightmare match up for opposing teams. I do agree with them trading down, and I think that is their goal, but I still think drafting Murray would be a mistake. They instantly lose value (they are invested like you said) and he's not rated anywhere near where Darnold/Mayfield/Rosen was last year. It would be different if it was a guy like Andrew Luck who was pretty much guaranteed to work out, but Murray's a gamble. Many experts don't even have him as the top QB in this draft, let alone a top 5 pick.
Sorry responding back to this so late. My original point within our discussion was based on the notion that you said you’d want the Jets to draft one of the top 3 centers “even if its a reach”. At what point in the draft, which of the 3 is selected & what their actual value is was not really relevant..simply the statement that we are reaching was what i was responding to. As for Sam getting hurt bc of the center position..i dont think you draft or make specific decisions based on fear or a hypothetical worst case scenario.What if Sam gets hurt bc we started an inexperienced rookie at center?What if he gets hurt bc the receivers arent getting open & he has to hold the ball too long?What if the defense still sucks bc we dont draft an edge? The jets have about 4 major needs..Center included.They are all a priority but the last thing the team should do is force feed plugging a hole by reaching..This is a team that needs a talent upgrade not just positional.And even considering positional the team needs help at IMPACT positions..which center unfortunately is not. If the value is there im 100% for drafting a center..but not in a reaching scenario when the team needs overall talent
depends on the reach really. as it stands now no way we could really reach. we obviously aren't taking a center 3rd overall which means if we do take one the highest it would be is early 3rd but we also have a late 3rd and a early 4th and there are 3 centers easily worth taking early 3rd and a couple more worth taking with the late 3rrd or early 4th. with that said a small reach with our early 3rd pick for the 4th best C isn't a bad thing
I think the concept applies more in trade down scenarios. Likke you just said..none of the top 3 centers will be a reach in the 3rd round. I wouldnt consider Bradbury before pick 20 or so..and the latter 2 are late 2nd/early 3rds.I wouldnt really wanna reach on them in the event we get a pick in the early to mid 2nd where we might find an upgrade at OT/WR or Corner Also..when i say reach i dont mean based on the consensus “big board” bc Teams look for different things & no 2 team big boards will be alike.Im referring to the team themselves having a player graded much lower than where they select them
I wouldn't take any of them in the 1st round. I think edge is the best value. with that said if we could say swing a trade with the giants and get the 6th and 17th picks, I would take taylor at LT 6th overall and at 17 take the left over edge rusher which could be ferell or burns. I can't see taking a center in the 1st. none are worth it really. If we could somehow add a 2nd rounder though i'd gladly take one of the top 2 in the 2nd round. would be nice if say bosa and Q went 1 and 2 overall and the raiders offered us a 2nd rounder to move up 1 spot to get murray, then we could still take allen and grab a C in the 2nd round. lots of possibilities.
I hope Bosa's political views allow him to drop to 3 (lets not bring it up please). Bosa is still 1A in my book.
No problem responding late, but frankly, I wish you hadn't responded at all. This isn't your norm, and if I didn't know better, I'd have sworn that someone had hacked your account and answered this instead of you. It really has me confused. We'll definitely just have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend. I don't know what's going on with you, my friend, but your thought processes and responses on this topic are way off base imo. I never said anything about drafting someone for the short term, or making a major reach for a C. You're making some wild statements/claims and 2 different strawman-type arguments. You're also employing a bit of a double standard when you say "At what point in the draft, which of the 3 is selected & what their actual value is was not really relevant..simply the statement that we are reaching was what i was responding to." because I'm pretty certain that I've seen you recently make the statement that if a team likes a player strongly enough that fits a need, the team should go ahead and take the player even if they have other players rated higher and regardless of value. Am I wrong? If so, I apologize, but I would swear that I've seen you make a statement like that in another thread. With regards to the bolded paragraph, I totally disagree. Fear is a powerful motivator. When your FQB is at risk, one better be afraid, and if one is smart, one had better do something about it. Mac didn't do anything in FA, so he created this situation, and imo he almost HAS to draft one of those 3 Cs in the draft. It's stupid. It never should have come to that. I've spoken about that several times, how Mac has broken one of the Cardinal rules of GMs, and that is to not leave yourself in a position where you are forced to have to draft a player at a position of need. Mac not only did it with the C position, but also with the OLB/edge rusher position. Mac could have and Mac should have signed both an edge rusher and a C in FA and didn't. Nothing, no need is more important than keeping Sam healthy and upright. We could draft 4 players in this draft who all became HOFers, but it wouldn't matter if Sam wound up getting seriously injured because we didn't draft a C to protect him because it wasn't good value. We simply can't risk Sam's health "hoping" there will be a camp cut who's better than Harrison or that Sam can survive this year with Harrison at C until we can draft a C next year. The odds of Sam getting hurt are much worse imo with Harrison at C than they would be with any one of Bradbury, McCoy or Jenkins starting at C. I totally disagree that the C position isn't an impact position. It's where opposing teams can get the quickest pressure that can affect the QB the most, and the C usually makes the OL protection calls, so it is an important position. IMO, after LT, it is the most important position on the OL. We also don't want to have to alter our offense and pinch the formation in just because Mac is a moron and didn't address the C position in FA or the draft. Sam getting hurt because the WRs aren't getting open? Seriously? Come on, that's not your normal level of reasoning or response. That has nothing to do with the discussion, nor does the defense sucking if we don't draft an edge. If we don't draft an edge rusher, we won't win as many games, and most likely, that won't be the direct causation of a key defensive player getting injured. Conversely, not addressing the C position in FA, and then missing out on the best centers in the draft because of our draft position, could very easily directly cause Sam to get seriously injured. This is about protecting our potential FQB. Nothing else matters. Sam doesn't have to hold the ball too long. No one forces a QB to do that. The QB can throw the ball away, dump it off to the RB (and we have Bell for that very reason) or a TE, or run himself. If a QB gets hurt because he holds the ball too long, it's on the QB for being stupid. As far as reaching, you know that I'm not normally an advocate of reaching, and I didn't advocate reaching for one of the centers at the #3 pick. I was talking about in a trade down situation where we added a 2nd round pick and took one of McCoy or Jenkins with that pick. Since both are likely to go in the 2nd round, and the only way we possibly will get the chance to draft one of them is to trade down and add a 2nd round pick, and even then, we might not even get a shot at one of them anyway, depending upon with whom we trade down. If one of them is there, however, imo we have to take him. The chances are we won't trade down anyway, so it will be a moot point, and we'd all better pray that a much better C than Harrison shakes loose as a camp cut, although I don't why one would, unless it was purely a move by a team to create needed cap space. .
Late 2nd or early 3rd may be where they ought to go, but with the shortage of OL in the NFL, teams overdraft them. They do the same thing with QBs and edge rushers/ IMO any one of those would be big upgrade over Harrison, and therefore. it doesn't make any difference to me if they were drafted 10 positions too high. The difference in ranking between those 10 positions would probably only be a few hundredths of a point, or at worst, perhaps a couple of tenths of a point, and imo it would be foolish to refuse to take one because of that.
No strawman argument or putting words in your mouth.See above. Im sorry that we disagree but not sorry for anything ive stated. I consider the Center position extremely important to fill in the draft for the Jets .But its still one of 4 major needs & the best thing the Jets can do is draft based on value within those 4 areas. I dont think any one of the 4 needs should be prioritized over one another & let the team’s big board dictate. I didnt say center wasnt important i said it wasnt an impact position.the consensus Impact positions are OT/QB/WR/Edge/Corner. Ive been on record many times over that Centers are not a position to waste high picks on unless they are 2 way dominant producers w plus size & athleticism. Those types are extremely rare. Otherwise you can find effective ones on day 2 & even day 3. If the only prerequisites are that he snaps clean,can read D’s & pick up blitzes up the gut those types can be found later. Therefore if we’re taking one in round 2 when we might have a Greg Little,Yodney Cajuste or Deebo Samuel sitting there who the team hypothetically has rated higher..i disagree 100%.
Maybe a smokescreen, but it sounds like Cardinals are not going to take Murray because they can't get a #1 for Rosen. If so, SF and the Jets picks become more valuable. Also, if SF trades out for a team that wants a QB, it may mean the Jets will have Bosa on the board.
No way....if they LIKE Murray, they don't care what they get for Rosen. It's a sunk cost. I doubt Bosa gets past #2.
Anyone else think that if Murray drops to us (Williams and Bosa gone) our 3 pick becomes very valuable to up to 5 teams and would be a god send for us to trade down? I think this is very possible Cards don’t draft him
I don't think we can answer that question. Only because there are so many differing opinions on Murray. Normally, hell yes, a QB that has been rumored to go no.1 overall still on the board when we pick would be amazing for trade potential. But Murray is not a normal, "slam dunk" top QB prospect. Its entirely possible that anyone with remote interest in Murray would now just want to wait and see if he falls, because he may. Murray could go anywhere from 1 to 20s. If Murray goes no1. though, there's a strong possibility Bosa is still on the board here. If he doesn't, there's like no chance
Another report out that the Jets are high on Oliver and Williams over Allen. Apparently the Jets view Oliver as an Aaron Donald type player.
Right, the Cardinals are delusional. Also, if the Cardinals take Q. Williams and SF trades out to a team taking Murray, Bosa may be there at 3. We shall see.
The pick at 3 has to be Allen or Bosa. I won’t be disappointed if it’s Williams but would question that decision. If we trade back inside the top 10 I could see the target be either Metcalf, Oliver, Gary, Sweat or Jonah. If we trade back between 11-21 I could see Greedy, Polite, AJ Brown and whoever falls from the above group.
