The ones that were here before drive the tebowmania as well, just look at the post bating tebow fans just in the sub forums here, so yes I should have said it better, its both new sign ups and previous board members.
Sanchez has shown like flashes of greatness in high pressure situations, in the damned playoffs against very good teams. Sometimes it frustrates us to no avail to see how well he has played in those situations and then regressed during the following regular season. But he started getting things together this season until teams really put a stranglehold on the Jets' offensive weaknesses, and he ended up hurt against a certain Denver football team. I get your belief in Tebow, but understand that unless you understand that Jets fans have some of the same belief in Sanchez, for those monumental flashes of potential, then it will be a head-butting contest that only the most resilient and not just the most knowledgeable would win.
Sure, the Middle ground for Tebow is using him exactly how Rex Ryan has stated they plan on. How us Bronco fans wish we COULD have. I watched every snap of Tebows as a Bronco and I can say with 100% certainty that he is good enough to be on the field yet bad enough to be yanked. The middle ground is finding a good balance where you can get this playmaker on the field, but not have to rely on him every snap. I never said he was some terrific QB or that he would ever be the starter. In fact perhaps you should read some of my first few posts. Hell I was chiming for an Orton and Tebow split early last season. And neither Orton nor Tebow are as good as Sanchez. Its pretty simple Tim Tebow is effective, but Tim Tebow is also inconsistant. He is not the guy you want to rely on playing QB for 60 mins. He is however very capable of making plays from many different looks. Finding a balance or "middle ground" is the best way to utilize Tebows strengths and minimize his weakness. You are actually a perfect example of someone with their guard up. I believe it was you who chimed in yesterday at the first chance you could with some rediculous savior and crucifix reference. Many of us Bronco fans were just like you, we were on guard and we were ready to counter anyone. Religious references were something we used often. I just hope for your fan bases sake you dont go down the same childish path we went. It only causes division. I changed my tone towards Tebow (or his "Bots" if you will)-and Im sure one day you will as well.
"Well, then that makes it sound much less pathetic and lame." Nice avatar. I imagine you'll change it as soon as you decide Ryan isn't kissing your idol's ass with sufficient gusto.
I haven't posted any references to saviors or crucifixes to my knowledge, but go ahead and search my post history if you disagree. I may refer to the Tebow contingent that has recently arrived as a cult, but that is mostly tongue in cheek. I am mainly concerned with how the addition of Tebow is going to affect the team on the football field and am trying to get people to stray from the mania, be it hero worship or religious fervor, that distracts from the football benefits of having this guy on the team. However, it's hard to lay off manipulative and one-dimensional arguments that want to portray him as something he is not.
Same here, its gonna be a tough road. I really think theres nothing that can be done untill they actually take the field though.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. He is much further along. If there's a problem with him it would have to be a subtle one. Because there have been plenty of great moments. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I truly think you guys will be surprised at how smooth this transition could actually be. The Jets lockerroom (from an outsiders view) already seemed volitaile at best. There is no doubt this will be a distraction, but it will be far more media driven. I think its all on Sanchez and how he embraces the idea of this wild offense. Personally I can see something special brewing in NY. Tebow knows hes a good player, but hes also a great teammate. Tom Nalen recently came out and said Jay Cutler didnt say a word to him his rookie year. I find that hard to believe but he did in fact say that. Im sure it was a combination of a grizzled vet and a cocky rookie and egos clashing. You wont face the same things with Tebow. The Jets players will see Tebow daily and get to know him and like any and every teammate before and after him, they will have his back and he will have theirs. People claim its a passers league now, and largely thats true- but its just as much a personell match-up league. The huge influx of large fast TEs is a prime example. Teams have to pick their poison in guarding these guys because often it requires a "better" player forced out of position. The Jets getting Tebow was about exploiting the match-up. As a "multi purpose" player Tebow can give them more of those mis-match opportunities. When you are close (like the Jets are) you just need something else. Some different type of wrinkle . From an outsiders perspective the Tebow trade seemed brilliant to me.
In your teams case I would say the passage of concepts would describe it. Tim Tebow can be extremely effective if used properly. Rex Ryan can grasp the concept, and IMO you guys are lucky you have a coach that has the balls to try.
Do we have any real information that Mark was hurt? Which games was he hurt in? Do we know if Tebow had any mystery injuries? I am not at all manipulating statistics. 16 games is one season. I'm taking Tebow's 16 against Mark's last year. It would look even worse if I took Mark's rookie year. Of course, the cry of manipulation could still be made because Mark didn't stay in college. I can make up a million excuses for either player. Mark lost 3 of his WR's last season. Wayne Hunter is awful. Brick didn't play well. How about Tebow? Did he even have a NFL starting caliber WR? Does Eric Decker start if he's on the Patriots, Giants, Saints, etc? How badly did his coaching staff want to sabotage him that they traded away Brandon Lloyd mid season, and then traded Tebow after he took them to the playoffs? Also, I would say that Yardage, Touchdowns and Interceptions are more valid stats than completion percentage, which everyone seems to be suddenly fawning over. I never brought up race, I'm not sure why it matters. A running QB is a running QB. Tom Brady and Chad say 'hi'. It's plenty easy to get hurt worse than a concussion as a pocket passer. It worked for Denver last year, it would work better for us since we have a better defense. I won't pretend I can predict the future of where offense in the NFL is going, but I know what I saw Tebow do last year as well as Sanchez. There just isn't much difference between the two guys in offensive production. That doesn't mean Tebow is a great passing quarterback, it is more an indictment of Sanchez's progress. If Sanchez does not improve dramatically, they should start Tebow. Less turnovers will mean more wins.
Im slowly beginning to believe we may be on the same page, but I meant a tough road for those of us on the board trying to bring people to the realization that he is not here for a QB competition or to secretly take over and cast Mark out.
If anything, I was going out of my way to make Mark look better. Last season was his best season. Here is a comparison of Mark Sanchez's first 16 starts with Tim Tebow's first 16. Sanchez first 16 starts 2010 yards overall rush/pass 8 touchdowns 21 turnovers Tebow first 16 starts 3757 yards rush/pass 26 tds 16 turnovers Want to see something even more amusing? Tebow had 396 more passing yards (2301) than Sanchez (1905) in their first 16 starts. Which QB came into the league unable to throw the football and read defenses? To be fair, Tebow did have more attempts (81) but that is still pretty funny for the "RUNNING QUARTERBACK" to have a better passing numbers than Sanchez in their first 16 starts. You know how many 300 yard games Mark has had in his career? 4. You know how many Tebow has had in his Career? 2. I know, it's Shotty's fault, but Any way you want to cut it, Mark has only been Marginally better than Tebow as a passer and he is not even close to as good as a runner or a team leader.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...ts-qb-mark-sanchez-says-neck-just-little-sore http://nyjetsfan.com/2012/01/06/sanchez-played-with-pinch-nerve-will-not-require-surgery/ No reports of any Tebow injuries, but I'll keep you posted. What would you compare it to? Tebow's rookie season? If not, you'd definitely be manipulating stats. They showed more conviction about getting a mis-chosen 1st round pick out of town than the Jets did with Gholston. I wish the Jets would be that decisive. Of course you would. It somehow portrays Tebow as a realistic option under center. Name the number of players in your mind who are running QBs, and let's see where the talley ends up as far as race is concerned. I don't care about what race they are but when you see the names pile up there's a certain detail that stands out to you. Tom Brady was the victim of a cheap shot that spawned a rule preventing such hits. Chad Pennington hurt himself diving forward on a busted play. Special points for you if you can come up with the team he did it against. This comparison is a stupid one. Starting Tebow at QB in a league determined to turn the passing game into the feature would be the worst mistake this franchise has made since Kotite. Starting at QB is not one of those uses, and likely won't be for a long time, if ever.
I disagree with Dirty, btw, but for the benefit of our new fans here, I thought I might try and help them out a bit. I speak first of all as one who has become increasingly impatient with what I have called Sanchez Fans around here. What I specifically mean by that term is posters who seem singularly incapable of blaming Sanchez for any of his shortcomings, or perhaps in slightly less extreme cases minimize Mark's personal responsibility for his mistakes and shortcomings. This kind of view of things leads at least some of them to throw the whole rest of the team under the bus before they accept responsibility on Sanchez's part. What goes into the makeup of your typical Sanchez Fan would be an interesting digression here, but a digression it is. But one thing even I do not think goes into that makeup is a support for him that exists outside of his being a New York Jet. It is not a priori. It is not for what he does off the field, either, although some make it sound at times like they want to give him a free pass because he's banging some hot chick or other. But I don't think they really feel that way. No, even the most rabid fan I think is that while having at the same time the interests of the Jets in their minds and hearts. They merely are mistaken to place so much faith in and deference to Mark Sanchez. But they are Jet fans. Now we have this, frankly, phenomenon not only of a player with his own following being traded to the Jets, not all that surprising for us - we can remember some Favre fans coming over after that signing, but one who at least some of whose support is based on things other than his being a football player. Some here and I am not one of them will or have already stated they dislike him for his religion. Or seem to, and a greater number dislike the WAY he exhibits his religious beliefs, particularly as some see it relates to his football performance. I think those who in fact do support him at least partly for that reason will have to accept that. The Jet Fanbase in fact is diverse, in my opinion. The Jets after all are based in NYC, and beyond that, as has been noted, Jet Fans in particular have a chip on our shoulders, are used to either not caring what others say or think or in being angry with those things, or both. We also have a history of disenchantment with the FO, the owner, the local media, Giant fans, and that is all before you get to your usual division opponents. But I also think most here you will find are prepared to look at things on the merits, and will entertain different points of view. What you will find Jet fans are less likely to accept, and will not accept without you being called on it, is pretending to be concerned about the Jets if it is apparent you are really concerned about something or somebody else. And if that somebody else is Tim Tebow, you are welcome to post here, just as the Favre fans were, even the Patsie and fish fans as long as they don't derail threads too much. But if you post things that more or less indicate a preference of Tebow's interests over that of the Jets, expect to get called on it. And it is no answer to say there is no difference between Tebow's interests and those of the Jets. Yes, there will be an overlap, and it may even be a substantial overlap, although I doubt that latter part myself. But they will not amount to exactly the same thing, as they were not for Revis, or Holmes, or Keller, or any player. Well, except for Mangold, who is my favorite player. Heh. I think that covers it. And while I may not say welcome, just as I do not to all the tourists I see walking down the street in midtown, if you ask me nicely I will give you directions. Assuming I am not in a real hurry, of course.
Comparing the first 16 starts of each player is not manipulation. At this point you're using the term "Manipulation" to disregard any statistic which doesn't demonstrate your point. Feel free to explain how Tebow is not a realistic option under center if you consider Mark Sanchez to be a realistic option. Be sure your answer includes why exactly he started 13 games last year, and how he won 7 of them if he's not capable of being a quarterback. Remember that one of them was a playoff game against the Steelers who's D-Coordinator is one of the best in the game, and Tebow threw for 300 yards against them. I recall Penny destroying his hand against the Giants, and iirc it was a preseason game. Of course, he was hurt more than once. I could bother to look up all the non-concussion injuries of QB's last year, but it's really not worth it, as you'll have an excuse for everything. Anyone who's watching football and is somewhat rational realizes that QB's often get injuries other than concussions when in the pocket.
Looks like you can't address the logic in my last post with a reasonable argument so you resort to name calling. That means you lose.
