Have to ask if you are old enough to have watched Elway play his first year. He was anything but a good QB. He was last in the league in QB rating iirc.
4 out of 5 bad games you say??? How about Fitz's 8 out of 9 bad games to end the season? During that stretch the Bills posted totals of 7, 8, 10, 11, and 17 total points in 5 of those contests. 'Ol Fitzy threw 16 picks over that span.. :lol: If Fitz is so much better than Timmy, then how do you explain a 6 year vet going through a significantly worse stretch than a 2nd year guy??
John Elway's numbers were actually quite mediocre for the first 10 years of his career - 54.7% completion percentage, 158 TDs, 157 INTs, 73.8 QB rating. It was his winning percentage that kept him his job (89-52-1), not any perception that he was a great drop back quarterback, and he was no lock for the Hall of Fame (of the class of '83 QBs, at that point anyone would have rated Marino and Kelly much higher than he, and even O'Brien's numbers were better). His numbers were far better his last 6 years in the NFL (60.0% completion percentage, 142 TDs, 69 INTs, 88.9 QBR), with an even better winning percentage (59-30). Not so coincidentally Terrell Davis played with him for the last 4 of those years. I don't really see what any of this has to do with Tebow, but I just wanted to point out that thinking of Elway as an immediate success like Marino, P. Manning, or Brady (once he started) is simply not correct.
Your mindless snivelling is music to my ears now that we've excised your cancer from the organization. Too bad you'll now metastasize here instead.
I wasn't really making a point so much as lambasting the fact that, if either Sanchez or Tebow wins a Super Bowl, they will be instantly gratified and more.
Elway carried three outmanned Bronco squads to the Super Bowl on his back. Denver had the smallest offensive lines in the NFL under Dan Reeves and among the smallest and most unathletic front sevens. Most sacked quarterback in history, remember? Marino was drafted by the AFC champions and only got them back once more in 16 years. Kelly had way more help in the form of Thomas, Reed, BSmith, Bennett, Talley, Hull, etc. Things began to change in Denver when Wade Phillips traded for Gary Zimmerman and Mike Shanahan installed a 20th century offense. Sorry if providing some context to the numbers wrecks your argument. I'm sure Tebow will play in five Super Bowls before he's done, too. Or, maybe, he'll last five more seasons in the NFL. Wouldn't hold out much hope for either scenario.
I don't think it has anything to do with Tebow, either, but I feel compelled to point out as you know that the NFL back then was much less friendly to completion percentage, for a variety of reasons. You also left out he took his team to the SB in 86, was the NFL MVP in 87, two additonal SB appearances, concededly losses, before winning two, and of course legendary events such as The Drive. He is also tied for comeback wins NFL all time at third with Johnny Unitas, the number being 34. He is second all time NFL for 148 wins, behind Favre, and at 300 TD passes is fifth all time. Elway's Broncos rarely had a decent D to support him, and one SB loss they gave up 35 points in the second half to the Skins. Although there were the Three Amigos earlier on, in fact he often played without any real offensive support until Davis joined him. The Sporting News lists him at 16 in the list of greatest football players all time. As a Qb he is usually ranked top five all time. With Tom Brady he is the only Qb to start in five SB's. I just wanted to clear up any misconception that his success was somehow limited to his last six years.
agreed, it is often stated that it requires an "elite" qb to win a superbowl, and the thing that makes a QB elite is apparently winning a superbowl. Good old circular logic
you are absolutely correct that it was a different passing era when elway started, Tebow and Elways numbers should not be compared because of that. You could make an argument that Elway underperformed when compared to his peers though. He did better his 2nd year
What was Marino's excuse for that Ringless finger? What was his excuse for only getting one look at the Lombardi before Keena Turner stuffed his face into the turf in Palo Alto?
Lots of people want to take Namath's career numbers out of context, too, but his greatness was undeniable. Especially to the people who played with and against him.
Elway's rookie season was concededly problematic, but you are correct that already by his second season he showed vast improvement over his first.
I am aware of that. One of them was pretty good, Johnson? I am not a Denver fan, so I don't recall the details. Elway I should reveal is one of those non-Jet players who I have really admired over the years. That's why I know more about him than the Broncos as a team during his era.
There was a different style of play in the 1980s and 1990s than there is today, so you can't really compare completion % and QB ratings accurately between the two eras. Elway's era was still much more of a gunslinger era than the later 1990s and into this decade. QBs ran the ball more and used the long pass a lot more than they do today. Today you see much more "long pass plays" being 10 yard passes and 40 YAC. Back in Elway's era it was 40 yards in the air and 10 YAC.
