I have Murrell and Donnie draft boards, so I will now post their final picks. If you guys are here, you can beat me to it if you're fast. If since you sent me your boards and you changed your minds, then ignore what I am about to post.
Murrell2878 selects QB Jim Kelly and DonnieIsTheKing selects 1. QB Warren Moon- Among the top in almost every passing QB in the NFL and is the only player to ever be elected in the NFL and CFL HOF's. Makes a very good backup QB, even without the excellent CFL stats (I don't think we consider them, do we?). The draft is now complete. Now the team bios and critiquing commences.
some of the best players who were not drafted Certain positions are not covered here. For instance, when I drafted Staubach I stopped ranking QBs. Also, this was just a rough list I made. I am not necessarily saying Sims was the best RB not selected. It is shocking that Ollie Matson, Lenny Moore, and Willie Davis did not get drafted. For my backup RB, I took Kelly over Matson and Moore due to fumble probability. With my Faulk pick, I made the comment that I hate fumbles. I liked Novacek more so than Newsome. If we had to take two D players and two O players in the backup draft I would have selected Fred Dean to aid in my pass rush. Instead, once I realized we could take three O players I opted for tight end Charlie Sanders. Billy Sims LaDainian Tomlinson Edgerrin James Red Grange Tony Canadeo Ricky Watters Ollie Matson Willie Galimore Hugh McElhenny Lydell Mitchell Gerald Riggs William Andrews Lenny Moore Steve Van Buren Ken Strong Chuck Foreman * Clarke Hinkle Tom Rathman Tony Richardson Tuffy Leemans Ernie Nevers Bill Osmanski Rocky Bleier Roger Craig Daryl Johnston Larry Centers * Tom Fears Lynn Swann John Gilliam Stanley Morgan Tommy McDonald Harold Carmichael Cliff Branch Wes Chandler Bob Hayes Harold Jackson Isaac Bruce Wesley Walker Al Toon * Jay Novacek Raymond Chester Todd Christensen Jimmy Kleinsasser Frank Wycheck * George Connor Luis Sharpe Joe Jacoby Gary Zimmerman Bruce Armstrong Jim Tyrer Lomas Brown Cal Hubbard Brad Hopkins Pete Henry Ed Healey Turk Edwards Steve Owen Mike McCormack Joe Stydahar Mike Kenn Bruiser Kinard Link Lyman Jon Kolb George Kunz Lou Rymkus Al Wistert * Olin Kreutz Jeff Hartings Kent Hull Bart Oates Tom Nalen Jay Hilgenberg Mick Tingelhoff Frank Gatski George Trafton Alex Wojciechowicz * Ray Donaldson Harris Barton Mike Wahle Dave Szott Steve Hutchinson Max Montoya Marco Rivera Doug Wilkerson Bill Willis Dick Stanfel Ed Budde Duane Putnam Abe Gibron Dick Barwegan Gene Hickerson Walt Kiesling * George Blanda Eddie Murray Matt Stover Jim Bakken Garo Yepremian John Carney Don Cockroft * Willie Davis Julius Peppers Earl Faison Patrick Kerney Dwight Freeney Len Ford Robert Porcher Bubba Baker Ed "Too Tall" Jones L.C. Greenwood Richard Dent Fred Dean Cedrick Hardman Claude Humphrey * Troy Vincent Antoine Winfield Dwayne Harper Albert Lewis Frank Minnifield Dick LeBeau * Gary Fencik Deron Cherry Darren Sharper Mike Brown Jake Scott * Dick Anderson Richie Petitbon Johnny Robinson Ed Reed Darren Woodson Charlie Waters Nolan Cromwell Tim McDonald * Billy Johnson Abe Woodson Travis Williams Mel Gray Brian Mitchell Rick Upchurch Michael Bates David Meggett Ron Brown Terry Metcalf Eric Metcalf John Taylor Jermaine Lewis * Rich Camarillo Rohn Stark Dave Jennings Jerrel Wilson Tommy Davis Chris Moorman Craig Hentrich
Huh, those two were next on my list. I wonder if I made the right decision going with Stabler over them...
I opted for John Stalloworth over Lynn Swann...I still think it was the right decision Cakes, which were the two "problem" players you alluded to earlier?
Matson and Moore. They fumbled at higher rates than Leroy Kelly. Kelly was a sure-handed runner and a fairly physical player. Moore was a halfback-flanker. Moore would have given someone versatility to be used as a wideout or a running back. Moore is in the same class as Marshall Faulk and Reggie Bush. You could make the argument that Matson was a top 20 running back. He was a big threat as a runner, receiver, punt returner, and kick returner. I just didn't like them over Kelly because of the fumble issue (and Kelly carried the ball more times per game). However, they didn't fumble any more than Dickerson or Dorsett, to name two examples.
I agree that Stallworth is a better player. Lynn Swann was average at best during the regular season and was more of a playoffs-only receiver.
I think I have this correct. If you notice a mistake PM me and I'll correct it. I noted the difference between regular draft picks and backup draft picks by listing their overall pick number in their respective draft. Arkansas Whales Cakes 5. Jerry Rice, WR 16. Dick Butkus, LB 25. Bob Lilly, DT 36. Jack Ham, LB 45. John Hannah, G 56. Buck Buchanan, DT 65. Bobby Bell, LB 76. Roger Staubach, QB 85. Marshall Faulk, RB 96. Rich Jackson, DE 105. Lem Barney, CB 116. Bob Brown, T 125. Larry Little, G 136. Kenny Easley, S 145. Paul Warfield, WR 156. Roger Wehrli, CB 164. Brian Dawkins, S 176. Jackie Smith, TE 185. Charles Haley, DE 196. John Henry Johnson, RB 205. Jan Stenerud, K 216. Reggie Roby, P 225. Winston Hill, T 235. Clyde Turner, C 6. Sonny Jurgensen, QB 14. Hanford Dixon, CB 25. Leroy Kelly, RB 34. Charlie Sanders, TE 1028 6. Barry Sanders, RB 15. Dan Marino, QB 26. Deion Sanders, CB 35. Derrick Thomas, LB 46. Chuck Bednarik, LB 55. Mike Webster, C 66. Kellen Winslow, TE 75. Rosey Brown, T 86. Larry Wilson, S 95. Ken Houston, S 106. Dave Wilcox, LB 115. Elvin Bethea, DE 126. Dan Dierdorf, T 135. Stan Jones, G 146. James Lofton, WR 155. Richard Seymour, DE 165. Curley Culp, NT 175. Ray Guy, P 186. John Riggins, RB 195. Morten Andersen, K 206. Dan Fortmann, G 215. Charley Taylor, WR 226. Everson Walls, CB 237. Joe Schmidt, LB 4. Nick Buoniconti, LB 15. Thurman Thomas, RB 24. John Stallworth, WR 37. Ken Stabler, QB Shamrocks Wolfe Tone 9. Reggie White, DE 12. Mike Singletary, LB 29. Dick Lane, CB 32. Bronko Nagurski, RB 49. Art Shell, T 52. Jack Youngblood, DE 69. Greg Lloyd, LB 72. Erik Williams, T 89. Brett Favre, QB 92. Dave Casper, TE 109. Cortez Kennedy, DT 112. Terrell Owens, WR 129. Steve Atwater, S 132. Joe DeLamielleure, G 149. Randall McDaniel, G 152. Karl Mecklenberg, LB 169. Dermontti Dawson, C 172. Bo Jackson, RB 189. Eric Allen, CB 192. Merton Hanks, S 209. Sterling Sharpe, WR 210. Mark Moseley, K 229. Sammy Baugh, P 230. Gene Lipscomb, DT 2. Bobby Mitchell, WR 18. Chris McAllister, CB 21. Troy Aikman, QB 36. Maxie Baughan, LB Jonathan_Vilma 4. Lawrence Taylor, LB 17. Jack Lambert, LB 24. Anthony Munoz, T 37. Mel Blount, CB 44. Alan Page, DT 57. Paul Krause, S 64. Eric Dickerson, RB 77. Willie Brown, CB 84. Steve Young, QB 97. Dwight Stephenson, C 104. Ron Yary, T 117. Jack Tatum, S 124. Michael Strahan, DE 138. William Perry, DT 144. Michael Irvin, WR 157. Leslie O'Neal, DE 167. Russ Grimm, G 177. Fred Biletnikoff, WR 184. John Anderson, LB 199. Antonio Gates, TE 204. Matt Snell, RB 217. Bill Fralic, G 224. Jeff Wilkins, K 236. Chris Gardocki, P 7. Joe Perry, RB 13. Torry Holt, WR 26. Tommy Nobis, LB 29. Len Dawson, QB Donnie's Dragons DonnieIsTheKing 10. John Elway, QB 11. Walter Payton, RB 30. Gino Marchetti, DE 31. Merlin Olsen, DT 50. Jonathan Ogden, T 51. Bill George, LB 70. Jim Taylor, RB 71. Mike Haynes, CB 90. Doug Atkins, DE 91. Will Shields, G 110. Willie Roaf, T 111. Tim Brown, WR 130. Mel Hein, C 131. Willie Wood, S 150. John Randle, DT 151. Jack Christiansen, S 170. Cornelius Bennett, LB 171. Ozzie Newsome, TE 190. Elroy Hirsch, WR 191. Gary Anderson, K 211. Sam Madison, CB 212. Ruben Brown, G 231. Jessie Armstead, LB 232. Darren Bennett, P 1. Franco Harris, RB 19. Rod Smith, WR 20. Sam Adams, DT 39. Warren Moon, QB JetGreen 2. Johnny Unitas, QB 19. Ronnie Lott, S 22. Emmitt Smith, RB 39. Randy White, DT 42. Harry Carson, LB 59. Bob St. Clair, T 62. Larry Csonka, RB 79. Marvin Harrison, WR 82. Rod Woodson, CB 99. Tom Mack, G 102. Sam Huff, LB 119. Carl Eller, DE 122. Tony Gonzalez, TE 139. Jim Ringo, C 142. Art Monk, WR 159. Tony Boselli, T 162. Yale Lary, S 179. Champ Bailey, CB 182. Ted Washington, DT 198. Andy Robustelli, DE 202. Mike Michalske, G 219. Nick Lowery, K 222. Shane Lechler, P 239. Keith Brooking, LB 9. Joe Namath, QB 11. Andre Reed, WR 28. Walt Michaels, LB 30. Priest Holmes, RB Murrell's Flyin' High Murrell2878 8. Gale Sayers, RB 13. Deacon Jones, DE 28. Ray Nitschke, LB 33. Jackie Slater, T 48. Ted Hendricks, LB 53. Gene Upshaw, G 68. Cris Carter, WR 73. Otto Graham, QB 88. Darrell Green, CB 93. Lee Roy Selmon, DE 108. Shannon Sharpe, TE 113. Orlando Pace, T 128. Raymond Berry, WR 133. Kevin Mawae, C 148. Art Donovan, DT 153. John Lynch, S 168. Bob Kuechenberg, G 173. Donnie Shell, S 188. Ty Law, CB 193. Joe Klecko, DT 208. Adam Vinatieri, K 213. Clay Matthews, LB 228. Sean Landeta, P 233. Lorenzo Neal, RB 3. Curtis Martin, RB 17. Conrad Dobler, G 22. Carl Banks, LB 38. Jim Kelly, QB ganooch 3. Jim Brown, RB 18. Earl Campbell, RB 23. John Mackey, TE 38. Ray Lewis, LB 43. Forrest Gregg, T 58. Larry Allen, G 63, Howie Long, DE 78. Derrick Brooks, LB 83. Mike Munchak, G 98. Lester Hayes, CB 103. Bruce Matthews, C 118. Walter Jones, T 123. Lance Alworth, WR 137. Mel Renfro, CB 143. Randy Gradishar, LB 158. Aeneas Williams, S 163. Rickey Jackson, LB 178. Fred Smerlas, NT 183. Neil Smith, DE 197. Joey Browner, S 203. Charlie Joiner, WR 218. Jason Elam, K 223. Todd Sauerbrun, P 238. Bart Starr, QB 8. Tony Dorsett, RB 12. Dan Fouts, QB 27. Troy Polamalu, S 33. Keith Jackson, TE MSUJet85 1. Joe Montana, QB 20. Joe Greene, DT 21. Marcus Allen, RB 40. Jim Parker, T 41. Marion Motley, RB 60. Willie Lanier, LB 61. Steve Largent, WR 80. Herb Adderley, CB 81. Warren Sapp, DT 100. Don Maynard, WR 101. Mike Ditka, TE 120. Gerry Philbin, DE 121. Rayfield Wright, T 140. Jim Langer, C 141. Junior Seau, LB 160. Cliff Harris, S 161. Robert Brazile, LB 180. Steve Wisniewski, G 181. Chris Doleman, DE 200. Carnell Lake, S 201. LeRoy Butler, S 220. George Musso, G 221. Louis Wright, CB 240. Lou Groza, K 241. Matt Turk, P 10. Jim Thorpe, RB 31. Fran Tarkenton, QB 32. Chad Johnson, WR kevin68 7. O.J. Simpson, RB 14. Brian Urlacher, LB 27. Terry Bradshaw, QB 34. Bruce Smith, DE 47. Emlen Tunnell, S 54. Ron Mix, T 67. Jim Otto, C 74. Don Hutson, WR 87. Randy Moss, WR 94. Kevin Greene, LB 107. Mark Gastineau, DE 114. Bryant Young, DT 127. Billy Shaw, G 134. Jimmy Johnson, CB 147. Lou Creekmur, T 154. Alan Faneca, G 166. Ken Riley, CB 174. Ben Coates, TE 187. Rodney Harrison, S 194. Mike Alstott, RB 207. Ernie Stautner, DT 214. Mo Lewis, LB 227. David Akers, K 234. Jeff Feagles, P 5. Tom Brady, QB 16. Mark Bavaro, TE 23. Dana Stubblefield, DT 35. Dante Hall, WR
These are the guys that were on my draft board but did not make it in the end LaDainian Tomlinson Ricky Watters Tom Rathman Roger Craig Lynn Swann Cliff Branch Wesley Walker Al Toon Jay Novacek Bart Oates Harris Barton Max Montoya Ed "Too Tall" Jones Richard Dent Ed Reed Darren Woodson Tim McDonald Mel Gray Eric Metcalf John Taylor
It's Swann. I recently found out he graded out as the top WR from 1975-79 per the NFL's premier scouting service. Stallworth can't match it. Swann was probably the most acrobatic receiver of all-time. Swann was MVP of Super Bowl 10. His first quarter catch along the right sideline in front of Mark Washington was hard to believe. Anytime I see the play it looks like he's going to go out of bounds, but he gets his feet down every time. Both were part of the best draft of all time- the 1974 Steelers draft. Chuck Noll wanted Stallworth in the 1st round but Art Rooney convinced him to wait. They took Swann in the first round, Jack Lambert in round 2, had no third rounder, and then got Stallworth in round 4. They also took Jimmy Allen and Mike Webster in that draft. Swann was one of those guys who stepped up in big games. His college coach, John McKay, had this to say to describe Swann's competitive nature: "Remember the Sundance Kid shooting targets? He couldn't hit a darn one until it got competitive. Then he never missed."
Cakes, The one guy that I didnt see drafted and would of thought he would have been was Paul Hornung. RB and kicker. NFl record of 176 points in a season. Never had a 1,000 yard rushing season but did score 13 td's one year. Where did you have him ranked or was this the guy that you didnt want to draft?
I have him outside the top 20 RBs, so I believe it was appropriate that he didn't go in the regular draft (which consisted of 20 RBs). If he had gone in the backup draft, it would have been okay. He just didn't carry the ball enough for me to lump him in with the greatest RBs. I put a premium on guys who carried the ball at least 15 times a game (Hornung had only 893 carries in 104 games). The most he ever ran with the ball was in the 12-game 1960 season when he had 160 carries. Of course, he was a great all-around player with blocking and receiving (28 catches was his single season high) and kicking and passing. However, we could only draft a player to use at one position. Somebody could have drafted Hornung as a K or RB, but not as both. In 1960 he scored 176 points in 12 games. He also threw two touchdowns. So that's 188 points he had a hand in. Hornung did make Sports Illustrated's "The Football Book" as an all-time top 25 running back. This book is currently in book stores. Get it before it goes bye-bye. It is a tremendous coffee table book, the best coffee table football book I've ever seen (it contains a SI excerpt on Joe Namath). It retails for $30. The 25 backs on the list- Marcus Allen Jerome Bettis *Jim Brown *Earl Campbell *Larry Csonka *Eric Dickerson Tony Dorsett *Marshall Faulk Red Grange Franco Harris Paul Hornung *Curtis Martin *Ollie Matson (best player not drafted by us) *Hugh McElhenny *Marion Motley Bronko Nagurski Ernie Nevers *Walter Payton *John Riggins *Barry Sanders *Gale Sayers *O.J. Simpson *Emmitt Smith *Jim Taylor Jim Thorpe LaDainian Tomlinson and Edgerrin James may make this list in a couple years and knock out Allen and somebody else. *I have no issue whatsoever with this guy's inclusion on the list That's 16 of the 25 I really like. Thorpe, Nagurski, Nevers, and Grange I have only books to go on. There's just not much film out there on them and it was a more rugby-ish game back then. They were all great, no question, but I don't know. To me, Leroy Kelly belongs in the top 25. Very sure handed player (very Faulk and Csonka and Lydell Mitchell-like in that he did not fumble very often)....was great on muddy fields....physical player....excellent tackler on special teams....very quick- so fast off the snap opponents claimed he was offsides- film proved he was not....killed opponents with the Browns' famous trap play. Also was a superb punt returner early in his career, leading the league in '65. He resumed punt return duties in his 8th season when the regular PR got hurt and he led the AFC in that category. He took over the impossible task of replacing Brown (the RB equivalent of Joe Montana to Steve Young) and was all-NFL for five years. The three RBs from the Million-Dollar Backfield could all be on this list. (Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, Hugh McElhenny, and Y.A. Tittle made up San Francisco's Million-Dollar Backfield.) Johnson is considered by historians to be the greatest blocker at the running back position. Perry played a long time- 14 years in the NFL after two in the AAFC (the league where the Browns and 49ers came from). I would probably put Johnson and Perry in the top 25 to join their teammate McElhenny. Steve Van Buren also might belong on that list and certainly does over Allen. I think Dorsett and Harris were overrated based on what teams they played for. Don't get me wrong, Hall of Famers certainly, but not in my top 25. Bettis is not a Hall of Fame back in my opinion. Unfortunately, he's going to make it based on career totals. Quantity, a Super Bowl ring, and a great personality will get him in, but to me the quality in play wasn't top shelf. He's a notch below. Billy Sims was one of the most enjoyable players to watch. Unfortunately, he ripped up his knee in 1984 and had to retire. He averaged 85 rushing yards per game which was better than Dorsett, Sayers, Simpson, Riggins, Harris, Van Buren, Taylor, Kelly, Csonka, etc. Of course, had he played longer he would have eventually averaged fewer yards per game, but I'm just sayin'- facts are facts. Chuck Foreman would probably be a Hall of Famer if he had played a couple more seasons. Look at his total yards from scrimmage, year-by-year, and note he played in a defensive era- 1973: 1163 1974: 1363 1975: 1761 1976: 1722 1977: 1420 1978: 1145 1979: 370 1980: 162 He had two consecutive 200 yard games in 1976. Then in the NFC Championship Game he put 199 yards on the Rams' rear ends. In 1975, Foreman just missed out on tying for the league record for touchdowns in a single season, and becoming the first player to lead his conference in rushing and receiving. He was hit in the face with a snowball in Buffalo and had to sit out the 4th quarter of the final game due to blurred vision. He tied Sayers single season mark with 22 touchdowns, but Simpson broke the record that season with 23. Foreman lost the conference rushing mark by six yards to Jim Otis. Larry Brown- another great runner. In 1972 the Associated Press, Maxwell Club, and Newspaper Enterprise Association all gave out MVP awards that year and Brown won them all. He was a tough runner and only lasted for four seasons at a high level. In 1973, his fifth year, he was so battered he only averaged 3.2 yards per carry, but did lead the league in touchdowns. The next year he averaged 2.6 yards per carry. Check this out- in the Redskins 1972 Super Bowl season, Brown had 285 rushes and the Redskins as a team only threw 284 passes! Brown was still the feature back in 1974 when he had that awful 2.6 number. The Redskins actually went 10-4 that year and made the playoffs (lost in first game to Rams, 19-10). As a team they ran 470 times for an average of 3.1 yards per carry. It's one of the worst marks in the Super Bowl era.
Here's classic Foreman footage. Check it out! http://youtube.com/watch?v=a3qPvxLKo7o&search= nfl touchdown runs#
