All Star starters announced today

He did play well, but not necessarily this year. When Holliday slugs .817 in postseason play and puts up big stats for multiple seasons, maybe fans around the country will give a shit about him and he'll start in an All Star Game.

Beltran obviously has many more fans than Holliday and they want to see him in the All Star Game.

 

I'm going to give this one more shot. A "normal" home park OPS boost is around 5%. Holliday's OPS is TWENTY NINE(!!!) PERCENT higher at Coors Field then it is on the road. It's interesting that Helton and Walker were mentioned as "HOF" hitters with or without Coors which I also think is a ridiculous statement. Helton especially is certainly a much better hitter then Holliday but he still saw a 20% boost in OPS at Coors and we see Walker with a similar spike as well. Now, these guys were fine players but nowhere near HOF level away from the friendly confines.

The biggest non Coors gulf I was able to find was Adam Dunn who OPS' 11% higher at home. This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Coors players. I don't know how to put it any clearer then this.

 

Why did you bump up a 3 day old thread only to flaunt your own ignorance. This isn't about half a season with Holliday, it's his entire career. Utley's OPS is about .100 points higher at home in his career, Holliday's is .300. The guy is simply mediocre when he's not playing in Coors.

And Minute Maid is not a pitcher's park. You're looking at half a season worth of games and attributing it to the park rather then the small sample size and player performance this year? Minute Maid is a great HR hitters park and it always will be barring some change in the dimensions. Just the fact that you're trying to make a park factor argument based on half a season reinforces the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

For example, Turner Field was 4th in the league in Runs/Game in 2005. This year it is dead last. Do you really believe that it was a hitters park in 05 and that the same exact stadium is the most extreme pitchers park in baseball this season?

 

Jesus, you're dense. Half year home/road splits are meaningless. I bring up Holliday's career numbers to reinforce the fact that the only reason he's any good is because he plays at Coors field. That's why he doesn't belong on the AS team, let alone start.

 

entertaining argument. a bit ridiculous arguing over the all star game because who really cares who starts or plays or goes or whatever. but i think you both make good points.....so far I have 3rd ahead in the debate but by a slim margin....yisman you lost a couple points with me trying to sneak in the minute maid is a pitchers park thing....continue.........

 

Barring outside influence(Shortening/Lengthening fences, putting balls in humidifiers) they simply don't. Last year Minute Maid was 12th in the league R/G and the Astros averaged 4.59 R/G at home. This year Minute Maid is 26th with the Astros averaging 4.56 R/G at home.

Do you seriously believe that some mystical change has come over the park and it is suddenly a pitchers park despite the fact that the Astros offensive performance is consistent with last season when it was a hitters park? Or could it be that there have only been 40ish games played there this year and at the halfway point of the season they could've hosted an inordinate amount of poor offensive teams? Or that those teams they played could've struggled for some reason other then the park?

 

yeah but I like your slyness with that one hahah but please, fellas, carry on....lets also keep in mind that the all star game is for people who wear their head phones to the games and bring gloves and score the game at home....

 

I am very much enjoying this as well. Personally, my opinion is on 3rd's side of the fence as well. I think there is overwhelming proof over the course of YEARS showing that Holliday's offensive output is largely dependent on the location of the game, and that is no different this season. You guys have done a much better job than I can at the moment in describing that point.

Plus, Beltran is a notably better defensive player than Holliday (not that I watch Rockies games, but I think that's a safe assumption). I really don't think there is any question that Beltran is more deserving.

Also, I'm having a difficult time understanding how a park can be a pitchers park one year and a hitters park another year. That's an impossible arguement to make unless there are a ton of new stadiums build and thus relatively speaking a ball-park's dimensions take on another significance as far as offensive output. The dimensions of a park are what they are and that is established over the course of years unless some of the qualities of the ballpark are altered (which in this case is not true)

 

That's not how the formula works. It's (HomeRS+HomeRA) / (RoadRS+RoadRA). What actually is skewing the number is the extreme home/road splits alot of Astros pitchers have. Despite the fact that the Astros are better offensively at home their pitchers have been so bad on the road(to the tune of 5.7 R/G) it works out to Minute Maid being identified as a pitchers park.

Now, I haven't looked at the schedules to see if it's just the Astros playing alot of bad offensive teams at home, or the Astros playing alot of games early on in places like Coors or Great American or if in fact it's just a fluke based on a small sample size. What I can tell you is that it's not Minute Maid park transforming into a pitcher's paradise.

 

Jeter and Posada are flying out to San Francisco aboard A-Rod's flying Champaign Room. No doubt they are discussing the first half of a disappointing season.

 

I didn't say that I felt Beltran should be starting. I agree with you in that Beltran shouldn't be starting, but I still feel he's more worthy of all star status (for lack of a better term), than say someone like Holliday (for the sake of this thread). My starters would've been Griffey, Lee, and Rowand/Soriano over any of the other all star outfielders. I'm leaving Bonds out of this, and Holliday would be at the bottom of my list for the reasons mentioned.

 

Well, at least Beltran played in the game like an All Star. Matt Holliday looked like a piece of shit.