Alex Smith rips Robert Saleh

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NCJetsfan, May 18, 2023.

  1. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Yes ..you wanted Zach Wilson to succeed, and all the odds were stacked against him as I am not a Saleh fan and his nepotism pick of MLF was disastrous. Do I still believe in this Coaching staff and FO? Well lets see about that

    We all lost faith in ZW ..but frankly NC the best outcome is that they keep him on the Team and as you mentioned he learns from HOF A Rogers
     
  2. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    One of the problems with the ZW pick was that you really don't take a QB at 2 with the expectation that he is going to sit for most of the season. It's not a hard and fast rule but it is rare that somebody selected that high requires a red-shirt season. Eli Manning was one of the guys who did but it's rare.

    This is why you don't take a QB on the #2 pick after a QB has gone on the #1 pick. Best QB is already off the board and whether you need a QB or not the odds are good you aren't getting one for that season with the pick. You just compound the error when you throw him out on the field right away.

    Also, you gave up a hell of a player or a great trade at #2 to make that error.
     
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  3. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Along those lines, it will be super interesting to see how this year’s crop of QBs does…there were 3 QBs taken in the first 4 picks between Young, Stroud, and Richardson.

    We don’t know which of those guys will turn out to be good, great, or suck…we just know that odds are almost 100% that they won’t all three turn out to be great. Probably just one of them will be great…

    Super interesting

    Back to Zach…I do get a bit tired of all the excuses made for him…first it was OL, then it was receiver drops, then it was coaching, and so forth…and while I agree those are all valid and true to an extent…we DID have a shit OL year 1, our receivers dropped some balls but not so out of line with the league, and I’d argue many of those were due to bad ball placement anyway, and yeah a rookie HC and a rookie OC is not ideal in any case. All true. STILL…my opinion…and it’s only my opinion, is that even with all that…he was terrible. Even with all that, he shouldn’t have been as bad as he was. If he really is THE GUY, then he wouldn’t have been last in the league in most QB stats. He would’ve had even just one GREAT game. He didn’t.

    It is what it is…time will tell…
     
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  4. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    If we drafted Mike White #2 and he played the way he did he would be crowned the franchise already, injuries and all.

    it’s the sunk cost fallacy going on here. Can ZW be a quality starter, maybe. High end QB very unlikely.
     
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  5. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Seriously, I doubt any of the QB's taken in the 1st round this year will live up to their draft position. I wouldn't have drafted any of them where they were drafted.

    Levis has a shot at 33 and Herndon Hooker was probably good value at 68.
     
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  6. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember during that draft season Zach was the next Mahomes, and Mahomes was the 2nd QB taken. It all lined up in a perfect storm of stupidity.
     
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  7. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    What about the year when Donovan McNabb was taken…wasn’t he the second QB that year, and then Akili Smith was the third? I think that was the 1999 draft when it went Tim Couch, then McNabb, then Smith…and Dante Culpepper was taken like 11th overall…so you never know. The first and third picks sucked, McNabb was very good, Culpepper was good, and then like Cade McNown was taken right after Culpepper and busted.

    It’s not ALWAYS the first QB who makes it.

    But yeah, the year that Gase fucked up for us it was clear that Lawrence was THE GUY, and that’s about it…we got caught with the second best guy, and so far he’s a bust.
     
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  8. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Lawrence was supposed to be a Jet. Everything else was a reach. This was an all-time bad pick for Jets given the trade value of the #2.

    Imagine having Sewell and Tucker right now, plus Mike White - who knows what the team looks like with him having better protection and more reps with the 1st team.
     
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  9. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Zach wasn't the 2nd best guy. His had no resume to suggest he should be worth even a top 15 pick. He was one of the most media created QB prospects in recent history.
     
  10. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The minute we heard off-platform throws we should have known. You want guys known for making on-platform throws. The ability to make off-platform throws means literally nothing in the NFL unless your QB is running for his life most of the time and then all it means is that he won't be a total failure.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think I'll go with a guy who has actually played the position and been an All Pro and former #1 pick, over all the "experts" who keep saying Zach Wilson sucks. Of course after screwing up his development for 2 years it remains to be seen if he can be resurrected. I'm hopeful that he can, especially playing behind Rodgers and not having all the pressure on him.

    Daboll was the guy I wanted, and I'm pretty sure things would've worked out differently if he had been hired as HC. Water over the dam now though and hopefully Saleh has learned his lesson. Rodgers is going help make him look good too.
     
  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Yikes. You don’t need to be a former All Pro to know Zach Wilson sucks. But you manage to infuse your love for the young BYU alum in every thread regardless if he’s involved in the discussion or not.

    He blows dude. Admit it and move on.
     
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  13. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    I am not going to fall for this is on Saleh crap failures for Zach Wilson’s progress.

    sure as in any coaching, things could have been better. But he s a defensive guru just like any other defensive head coaches. They rely a lot on OC, etc. Zach is not as athletic QB as many think. He’s talented sure I give him that. But he’s not built, not super fast, doesn’t have superior running skills.
     
  14. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    I’m from Texas and think it’s going to be Stroud. I wish they would have passed on QB and “given Mills a year on the new system to see if he’s the guy” while lining themselves up for the QB out of USC with their 2 2024 1st rd picks.

    I have 0 confidence in Ohio St. QBs

    I wonder where Stroud would have landed in Houston doesn't trade back up….
     
  15. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    Non-story. Alex Smith is like listening to Chris Simms talk about how great the Zach Wilson pick was. Rubbish.
     
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  16. Jets OG fan

    Jets OG fan Well-Known Member

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    Really? I've always seen it the opposite way. Zach has most of the physical tools, but needs to improve his mental aspects of the game, particularly footwork, reading defenses, accuracy and getting rid of the yips.
     
    #36 Jets OG fan, May 22, 2023
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
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  17. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Well I do think coaching matters (and more so in football than probably any other team sport), but just like other issues were held up as excuses for him, from poor OL to receiver drops to bad talent around him, all are actually true to one extent or another. For SURE, he didn’t come into a situation that was optimal for success.

    My issue with him is that he’s been SO bad…and bad at some basic shit like hitting a 5 yard dumpoff pass in the flat, that to me, it’s more than just coaching. MLF was a rookie OC, sure, and Saleh is a defensive guy, sure, but holy moly, hit a dam fucking dumpoff when the RB is 5 yards away from you. This is basic shit.

    So it’s a lot…there haven’t been many, and maybe none, QB’s who had two years like he did that ever developed into a quality QB. Alex Smith took a few years to get good, and he was hurt a couple years there in the beginning, but when he played a full year, he wasn’t this bad…so who knows…I do think Zach has some solid tools and a live arm…I just get frustrated seeing a number 2 overall pick struggle so much with shit that should be automatic.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The point of the article linked specifically addressed Saleh and the Jets mishandling of Zach. Am I NOT allowed to comment on that? The Zach hate hear is unbelievable.
     
    #38 ColoradoContrails, May 22, 2023
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
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  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    None of playing QB (or any sport/position) is "automatic".

    What's really frustrating is that so many who want to declare Wilson a bust despite all the obstacles he's had to deal with after only 2 years, always magnify his mistakes, but at the same time minimize the mistakes and the impact of those mistakes by the Jets. IDK what percentage coaching plays in a QB's success, but it's significant, perhaps even primary. To see this, look only to what happened with TLaw: went from a potential bust in Year 1, to back on the track of becoming damn good once a new (offense friendly) CS was brought in. Why would it be any different for Zach?

    Again, I'm not guaranteeing Zach succeeds, especially after having had to deal with the blows to his self confidence (another key factor in whether an athlete succeeds, independent of physical ability), but until he's been coached properly in a system that's more favorable to his strengths, no one can say for sure he's a bust. And if the Jets don't to invest that effort, they should've never drafted him at #2, and they should never consider drafting a QB and developing him because they don't have the capability.
     
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  20. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    So we agree that coaching matters. A LOT. No argument from me on that. On board 100%

    I don’t think many are “maximizing his mistakes”…we just look at the actual numbers and can see that he was bottom 3 in the league in almost all the ones that matter, other than picks. Sure, stats don’t always depict the full story, but you can’t just dismiss the fact that his stat line was (a) terrible across the board, and (b) did not improve much in year 2. That is not anyone maximizing his mistakes. That’s just looking at what the numbers show, holding it up to the eye test and the field, and guess what, they match! Stats were pretty bad. He looked pretty bad to my eyes.

    Also, yes coaching matters, but isn’t it eye-opening when three other QBs came into the same system with the same coaches and all looked MUCH better? Sure, Flacco is a former Super Bowl Champ with lots of experience, and while I’m not saying he was very good, he was still throwing for more completions and more yards. Josh freaking Johnson came in and had a 300 yard game…a career 3rd stringer. Again, he had years of experience on Zach but it’s not like he’s ever been even a marginal starter. And then there’s Mike freaking White…a late round pick without years of experience, who looked night and day better. So three different guys…three different backgrounds, but what did they all have in common? They all looked significantly better in the same games with the same teammates and the same coaching staff.

    So I just see it differently…which is fine! I love the debate, I love the discussion…all good!

    I will say I would LOVE to be wrong here and see him succeed…that is by far the best outcome for us, and I’d love to have to eat crow on this. I’m not sure that’ll happen, and I think the chances are greater that he doesn’t, but I would love to see it.
     
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