I really, REALLY hope you're watching this playoff game right now. Toting Tannehill's name around like some sort of quarterback God because he had a good season.
According to the stats on NFL.com We have the 7th ranked total defense, the 1st ranked running defense and the 8th ranked passing defense. According to the same source we are 32nd(last) in total offense, we have the 29th ranked passing offense, and the 31st ranked rushing offense. Gase is a huge problem, I think he is going to ruin Sam. My ideal, realistic scenario would be Gase gets fried, Williams is promoted to HC, and Douglas runs the draft and free agency with some input from Williams. Who will be OC, I don't know, maybe Matt Rhule, somebody to develop Sam. I know it's not going to happen but it's a beautiful Sunday.
So I'll go back to it. Did you watch the game? Your big knock is how much 'worse' of a passer he was under Gase. He had 72 yards passing yesterday with a touchdown, a pick and two fumbles. 22 of those yards were on a screen pass. I'd imagine you didn't watch the game. He was 13-11 with Gase as well. So are we nitpicking passing statistics or are we talking wins and losses?
I watched the game and let me tell you, Tannehill looked just as good as Brady did haha. Tannehill lead drives resulting in two td's, he did enough to come away with the W.
They both looked bad. Having said that, one bad game in Foxborough doesn't take away from all the good stuff Tannehill did this year. But don't misrepresent his performance, that ruins your credibility.
The whole argument is quite frankly idiotic. The guy just led his team to a play-off win. Something Gase wasn't able to do as a HC at all. Wait until he loses at least to discount entire season in one play-off game, where he did enough to win.
I literally said I'm not discounting his entire season in one playoff game. And Tannehill followed his team to a playoff win.
Your argument was about his strides made as a passer. Not his ability to hand off the ball to the NFL rushing leader and ride him to a win. Now you're crossing up your arguments. He had a winning record under Gase. Three games over .500 in his first year with a top NFL rusher.
There's too many other factors to say with 100% certainty that "Gase held Tannehill back" or "Tannehill's current success proves Gase retarded his progress", BUT...there's enough evidence to suggest that Gase was a factor, both in holding him back, and then when Tannehill escaped, enabling him to improve. It could be that it just took a few years for Tannehill to put it all together, or that he didn't have the right supporting cast in Miami - sort of how Sanchez regressed after 2011 when he lost a number of key pieces from the 2010.2011 playoff runs. On balance, I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to show that Gase was a limiting factor, but not enough to say for sure if he was the primary factor. That said, it provides support for concern about his impact on Darnold (not to mention other players). Apparently we're stuck with Gase for the upcoming season, but I sure hope Douglas and the Johnsons keep a close eye on him and if he continues to perform as his 4 year record indicates he will, they get rid of him before he does serious damage to Darnold.
We rarely agree on the coach, but I think that was well said. Darnold improved, even if not by some great leap into the top 10 of NFL quarterbacks like everyone expected/was hoping. Eye test and statistics support that claim. Regardless, he and the coach will have few excuses if we add a couple lineman and a receiver and the product remains the same.
Gase has already been fried. Didn't you see his eyes in the interviews. Not sure how this helps us. Maybe we make him take a test with Bell.
Yes, but this argument is supported by 12 games of regular season, where he finished as a top passer, and is not negated at all by him winning a play-off game relying mostly on rushing attack.
And what you're ignoring is that Tannehill played four seasons without Gase. Two with him. And then this 12 game sample size of games where he played well, but also only beat one winning team. His average quarterback rating before this season was 87.0. It's easy to see which season is the outlier season. But you can keep living in the fantasy land that has Ryan Tannehill as some elite passer because he finally gets away from a coach that he had his best production with prior to this year. And not a quarterback that got hot, with the best runningback in the league the last ten games of the season.
Good points there. It's hard to say whether Gase held him back or not, but the fact is, he had a top QB for two seasons, where he played in average 12 games per, and still offense finished 24th and 31st. Basically before everyone thought Ryan was a shit QB, excusing Gase's poor offensive stats, and now this excuse does not fly. Add to that 29th ranked offense when Ryan was out, and 32nd ranked offense this year with Sam, and things are not looking all that great for him as someone whose primary focus is coaching of offense. Maybe if Sam becomes MVP candidate next year, he can do well, like he did with Manning, I certainly hope so.
Not saying he became elite passer because he left Gase, just that this season shows Gase had a really talented QB in Miami and still coached to one of the worst offenses in the League. How many QBs who finished the season as top rated passer in NFL are not talented?
Right. I get that. But you're missing the point. When healthy, he was productive under Gase. He was two games over .500. When he had a top rusher in the league, he was three games over .500. He had the top two quarterback ratings of his career with Gase despite being out of the lineup at two points. He's played well. But let's see him keep going with this. He's at the age and point in his career where it really clicks for quarterbacks if they end up in the right situation with a running game. See: 2017 Case Keenum, 2013 Nick Foles, 2009 Matt Schaub, 2016 Sam Bradford, 2017 Alex Smith.
Foles and Smith did lead NFL in passing, but I think these two are legit talents. Foles even became SB MVP recently and Smith has been consistency good. Others you mentioned didn't lead NFL and didn't even hit 100. About Ryan though, like you said, under Gase he reached 93-94 rating twice, which is very good. He also reached 94 before Gase once when he was younger. Now he is at 118, which is quite great. I actually didn't mind Gase as a HC when he was hired and attributed Ryan's decent numbers in Miami largely to Gase, but this year proved the guy is for real, while Gase coached to the worst offense again. The point here is that we can agree Tannehil is a legit talented QB, not some scrub whom Gase made look good. Heck, when was the last time a Jets QB got 93 rating? Correct me if I am wrong, but we may have to go to 2002 version of Chad Pennington. And unfortunately even with Ryan, Gase didn't coach Miami to respectable offense - only rated 24 and 31. He also didn't have good offense the year Ryan was out (#29) and with Sam (#32 - worst in NFL). He did have a mediocre, but not terrible, year with Bears as a coordinator: #18. Still towards the bottom. Really the only time he did well was with Manning as MVP. All I can tell you is that I feel Gase drastically underperformed this year offensively, and this appears to be a trend dating back 4-5 years, not a one off. Hence, considering he doesn't coach defense, which actually did well, I don't see much value that we are getting in having him as a coach for another year.
